Finance Committee on Dec. 7th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Members, I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 122 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, September 21, 2023, the committee is resuming its study of policy decisions and market forces that have led to increases in the cost of buying or renting a home in Canada.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely by using the Zoom application.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

There is interpretation. For those on Zoom, you have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

Although this room is equipped with a powerful audio system, feedback events can occur. These can be extremely harmful to our interpreters and can cause serious injuries. The most common cause of sound feedback is an earpiece worn too close to the microphone. We therefore ask all participants to exercise a high degree of caution when handling the earpieces, especially when their microphone or their neighbour's microphone is turned on. In order to prevent incidents and safeguard the hearing health of the interpreters, I invite participants to ensure that they speak into the microphone that their headset is plugged into and to avoid manipulating the earbuds by placing them on the table away from the microphone when they are not in use.

I remind everyone that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as well as we can. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses with us today on this study of policy decisions and market forces that have led to increases in the cost of buying or renting a home in Canada.

We have with us the Honourable Chrystia Freeland, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance.

Welcome, Minister. It's good to have you here.

Along with the minister, we have the deputy minister for the Department of Finance, and that is Mr. Chris Forbes.

Welcome, Deputy.

We will now have time for opening remarks. Then we will get into the members' questions.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is my pleasure to appear before you and members of the committee to discuss the central priority for millions of Canadians today.

Housing is at the heart of our economic plan. We are building more homes, faster. We are making it easier for Canadians to buy a home. And we are supporting Canadians who rent or own their home.

This fall we have taken further concrete action. We're lifting the GST on new rental construction to make it more affordable for builders to build. We have unlocked $20 billion in new low-cost financing to build up to 30,000 new rental apartments per year.

The federal government owns more land than anyone else in Canada does. We're releasing more of it to build homes on, including 2,600 homes in Calgary, Edmonton, St. John's and Ottawa.

We have signed housing accelerator fund agreements with Quebec and 10 cities across Canada. And we're not done. These agreements will help slash the red tape which is preventing homes from being built in the first place—and in exchange, we are providing them with $4 billion to build more than 100,000 new homes, faster.

And we have helped more than 300,000 Canadians save for their first down payment, tax-free, with the new tax-free first home savings account.

In our fall economic statement, which I released just two weeks ago, we also introduced new funding and new measures that will build more homes and protect Canadians with mortgages. We're providing $15 billion in additional low-cost financing through the apartment construction loan program, which will help build 30,000 more rental homes for Canadians. We announced an additional $1 billion through the affordable housing fund, which will help non-profit, co-op and public housing providers to build more than 7,000 new homes.

We're cracking down on short-term rentals listed on sites like Airbnb and Vrbo, which have been keeping tens of thousands of homes off the market, particularly in cities like Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal, where the housing challenge is most acute. We're helping to cut the red tape that prevents construction workers from moving across the country to build homes and we're also bringing to Canada more of the skilled trades workers that our construction sector needs.

In the fall economic statement, we also announced the creation of a new Canadian mortgage charter. This new charter details the relief that Canadians can expect from their banks if they are in financial difficulty. Our goal is to protect Canadians by making sure they have the support they need to afford their mortgages and keep their homes when renewing at a time of higher interest rates.

These measures, which were announced over the past three months alone, are only part of our overall economic plan.

While our government has a real plan to build more homes across Canada, the Leader of the Opposition's proposal would actually see fewer homes built across the country. He would put the tax back on rental construction. He would cut funding to cities that are trying to build more housing. He would also repeat the mistakes of the past by pulling the federal government out of homebuilding altogether.

That is exactly the opposite of what Canadians need right now. Our government has a plan, and we will keep working—day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year—to build the homes Canadians need, expect and deserve.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the MPs on the committee.

Thank you, also, to your family members for particularly nice presents.

I am now happy to take your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Minister Freeland.

We are going to get into questions.

In the first round, Minister, there are up to six minutes to ask questions for each party.

We are starting with MP Hallan for six minutes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, have you seen our common-sense Conservative leader's brilliant 15-minute documentary on the housing hell in Canada, which has been viewed over four million times?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I am certainly familiar with the Conservative scheme on housing. I haven't watched the video itself.

I would point out that there is—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Okay.

I would strongly encourage you to watch it. It's a common-sense Conservative plan on how to build more homes, not more bureaucracy. Also, while you're at it, share and subscribe, so others can see a common-sense Conservative plan on how to get housing fixed as well.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I'm happy to comment on the Conservative scheme today. In fact, I'd be very happy to.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Minister, your government's housing agency, CMHC, says that 3.5 million additional homes need to be built in Canada by 2030 to restore housing affordability. The head of your housing agency—the same one—said two days ago at the Senate finance committee that your government has no plan to reach that number. In fact, in this committee, that same agency—your housing agency—said this target is not attainable under current conditions because of high interest rates and higher costs caused by your government. In other words, your own housing agency has no faith in you or your government.

If your own housing agency has no faith in you, why should Canadians?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Hallan.

You asked me to comment on the Conservative scheme for housing, so let me do so.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I didn't ask you to comment on that.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

You, in fact, invited me to, so let me comment.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I'd like to hear an answer about—

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

First of all, I would point out—

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Go ahead on a point of order.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Hallan, as he does every time the minister comes, asks the question or makes a statement, then refuses to allow the minister to answer.

Mr. Chair, I would ask—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I did not ask about—

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

—that we allow the minister to answer the questions, out of respect for the minister and the other members—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

My question was not about the documentary.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

—of the committee, and for the folks at home who are watching and would like to hear the answers.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

The question is about your department not having faith in you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Hallan, I am going to ask.... As happened at the last meeting, there's a lot of crosstalk. You're jumping in when....

You asked a question. Allow—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

The question wasn't about the documentary. The question was about—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You asked the question—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

—her department not having faith in her.