Finance Committee on April 18th, 2024

[Dr. Paul Allison]

That would definitely be helpful. However, as you will understand, the major problem is that when you come to any training situation, whether it's at a university, the dental schools or the colleges, the care takes a lot longer. If a person has the choice between going to a training institution to get their care for free or much cheaper and going to a private office and getting it done much more quickly, it would be understandable if they went to the private office. In our dental schools, we've begun to hear people say they are going to do that.

It's a major concern that we have. How that's going to play out at this stage, we are not quite sure, but we're already beginning to see that happen.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Right. That's definitely an issue we'll have to address. Certainly, it's been addressed in every other medical profession. Many other disciplines in medicine require practising on patients as part of the internship process.

To clear up a couple of inaccuracies, I'm going to read you a quote from the Canadian Dental Association. They confirmed at this morning's meeting that they've been extensively consulted on the CDCP. They said, “Over the past two years, CDA has been representing patients and the dental profession in conversations with Health Canada. CDA and the Provincial and Territorial Dental Associations (PTDAs) provided information on what is needed to ensure optimal oral health care for all Canadians.”

Were you aware of that?

[Dr. Paul Allison]

I was.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Dental hygienists have also been extensively consulted by the government as part of their contribution to the CDCP. Were you aware of that?

[Dr. Paul Allison]

Yes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Dentists like Dr. Cooney, Dr. Quinonez, Dr. James Taylor—who is Canada's dental officer—and Dr. Doucet have all been extensively consulted by the government. Were you aware of that consultation of dentists?

[Dr. Paul Allison]

I was.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

You're also aware, as said by my colleague, that there's no requirement to sign up for the program. The first patients are only going to start going to the dentist in May, and dentists will be able to bill them on a claim-by-claim basis starting in July.

Are you aware of that?

[Dr. Paul Allison]

Yes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Do you think the provincial associations are advising their dentists not to sign up for the program until more details are known, until the fees are raised or until their demands are met? Do you think that may be partially responsible for the lack of dentists signing up?

[Dr. Paul Allison]

I can imagine it is, yes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Are you aware that when Tommy Douglas set up health care in Saskatchewan in the 1940s, the doctors in that province went on strike?

[Dr. Paul Allison]

I wasn't aware there was a strike, but I was aware there was a lot of resistance, yes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

It seems to be the case that when there's change like this, there's some resistance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Davies, that's the time.

I'm looking at the time. We'll have a truncated second round. It's going to be four minutes per party.

We're going to start with MP Hallan for those four minutes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thanks, Chair.

Mr. Kelly, since I don't have much time, I would appreciate some short answers.

How much have your members received in carbon tax rebates today, after five years? I just need the dollar amount.

[Daniel Kelly]

I think $31 million out of $2.5 billion went back in the first bit of this. Basically, there's $2.5 billion or $2.6 billion sitting on the accounts of the Government of Canada.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Does this disprove the Liberal government's claim of the carbon tax being revenue-neutral?

[Daniel Kelly]

There's no possible way you can claim the carbon tax is revenue-neutral while the Government of Canada is sitting on two and a half billion dollars owed to small businesses.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Eighty-two per cent of small businesses are saying to scrap the carbon tax—axe the tax altogether. Will you advocate for those small businesses today and agree with them?

[Daniel Kelly]

Well, they speak for themselves.

My association brings their data forward to you. Today, you're absolutely right. Eighty-two per cent of small businesses across Canada, from our most recent member touchpoint, oppose the retail carbon tax as it exists today.

I will add that, just a year ago, only 52% opposed the carbon tax. One of the main reasons small firms have grown in their opposition to the carbon tax is that the government hasn't delivered on the rebates after promising them for five straight years.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Kelly, you represent many members. Are you saying that you won't advocate for the same thing?

[Daniel Kelly]

I'm sorry. Our members' position right now—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I meant your association's position, not your members' position. Do you—

[Daniel Kelly]

My association's position is my members' position.