Finance Committee on March 7th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 27 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. Pursuant to the motion adopted in committee on Thursday, February 17, the committee is meeting to study the invocation of the Emergencies Act and related measures.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely, using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee.

Today's meeting is also taking place in the webinar format. Webinars are for public committee meetings and are available only to members, their staff and witnesses. Members enter immediately as active participants. All functionalities for active participants remain the same. Staff will be non-active participants and can, therefore, only view the meeting in gallery view.

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind all participants of this meeting that screenshots or taking photos of your screen are not permitted.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from health authorities, as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy on October 19, 2021, to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person are to maintain two-metre physical distancing. They must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room, and it is highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times, including when seated. They must also maintain proper hand hygiene by using the provided hand sanitizer at the room entrance. As the chair, I'll be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting, and I thank members in advance for their co-operation.

To ensure an orderly meeting I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of the floor, English or French. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately, and we will ensure that interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings. The “raise hand” feature at the bottom of the screen can be used at any time if you wish to speak or alert the chair.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the Board of Internal Economy's guidelines for mask use and health protocols. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you're on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you're not speaking, your mike should be on mute. I would remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

We are scheduled for two panels today. We'll have our health break in between the panels during this meeting, because it is a longer duration.

At this time, members, before I introduce the witnesses, we need to elect a first vice-chair.

I am now going to look to the clerk to run us through that election.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Alexandre Roger]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the first vice-chair must be a member of the official opposition.

I am now prepared to receive motions for the first vice-chair.

Go ahead, Mr. MacDonald.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

I'd like to nominate Mr. Albas for first vice-chair, please.

[The Clerk]

It has been moved by Mr. MacDonald that Mr. Albas be elected first vice-chair.

Are there any other motions?

Is it the will of the committee to adopt the motion?

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

On division!

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Clerk]

I will not take that seriously.

(Motion agreed to)

I declare Mr. Albas duly elected first vice-chair of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Congratulations, MP Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, colleagues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

Now, members, we will move to welcome our witnesses.

The witnesses for our first panel will be here from 2:30 to 4. From the Canadian Bankers Association, we have Darren Hannah, vice-president of finance, risk and prudential policy. With Darren Hannah is Angelina Mason, general counsel and vice-president.

In our second session, we will have witnesses from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. They will be Michel Arcand, assistant commissioner of federal policing criminal operations, and superintendent Denis Beaudoin, director of the financial crime branch.

Now we will hear from our first witnesses from the Canadian Bankers Association for opening remarks.

[Angelina Mason, General Counsel and Vice-President, Canadian Bankers Association]

Thank you.

Good afternoon. Thank you for inviting the Canadian Bankers Association to appear today to participate in the committee's study of the invocation of the Emergencies Act and related measures.

My name is Angelina Mason. I am general counsel and vice-president of the CBA. I am joined today by Darren Hannah, vice-president of finance, risk and prudential policy with the CBA.

The CBA is the voice of more than 60 domestic and foreign banks that help drive Canada's economic growth and prosperity. The CBA advocates for public policies that contribute to a sound, thriving banking system to ensure that Canadians can succeed in their financial goals.

On February 15, 2022, the Government of Canada invoked the Emergencies Act and made associated emergency measures regulations and an emergency economic measures order. All financial service providers, including banks, covered by the order became legally obligated to implement the measures as stipulated by the government in the order.

Banks took great care to fully understand their obligations and to ensure that they limited the order's application to activities that fell squarely within its intended scope. The government indicated that the measures were intended to be temporary and focused only on a narrow group of individuals and entities involved in specific activities covered by the order. The vast majority of customers were not impacted by these measures.

Upon receipt of information from the RCMP regarding individuals and entities engaged in conduct or activities prohibited under the regulations, banks acted in accordance with their legal requirements under the order. We can confirm that banks acted quickly to unfreeze accounts after the RCMP notified financial service providers that it believed that the individuals and entities previously identified were no longer engaged in conduct or activities prohibited under the regulations.

While many of these accounts have been unfrozen, it is important to remember that some accounts are still frozen to comply with court orders or proceedings.

On February 23, 2022, the government revoked the regulations and the order, and the associated legal obligations of banks and other financial service providers ceased.

Thank you for your time. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Mason. Is that the end of your remarks?

[Angelina Mason]

That is the end of my remarks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay. Great.

We will move to members' questions. We'll start with a six-minute round, meaning that each party will have up to six minutes to ask questions.

We will start with the Conservatives.

MP Chambers, you have the floor.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses today. As you can imagine, this is an important study for us. In the wake of the Emergencies Act, there was a considerable amount of uncertainty. I'm hoping to help clear some of that up for Canadians and for members of this committee today.

I have a few questions, mostly on procedural issues. Let's see how far we get in the first six minutes.

Have your members previously frozen bank accounts of individuals?

[Angelina Mason]

Previous to the Emergencies Act?

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Correct.

[Angelina Mason]

Yes. There are a couple of cases where that occurred, in part because of a court order and in part because of a court proceeding.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you. You answered my second question—that it would follow a court order, typically.

[Angelina Mason]

Typically, yes.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Okay.

[Angelina Mason]

In one case, they actually applied to court, but yes, they were both court-initiated.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

For clarity, this time, outside of some extenuating circumstances or the examples you mentioned of accounts that are still frozen, a court order was not presented to the banks in these cases. Correct?

[Angelina Mason]

That's correct. It was a legal obligation under the Emergencies Act.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

You mentioned the legal obligation. Are you aware of any of your members who decided to not freeze a bank account after having been presented evidence or information from the RCMP?