Finance Committee on March 23rd, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Good afternoon. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 30 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. Pursuant to Standing Order 111.1(1) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, March 9, the committee has commenced consideration of the certificate of nomination of Annette Ryan to the position of Parliamentary Budget Officer, referred to the committee on Monday, March 9.

I would like to welcome our witness, Ms. Annette Ryan, deputy director of partnership, policy and analysis at FINTRAC, who has been nominated by the government to be the next Parliamentary Budget Officer.

I would now like to give you the floor for your opening remarks, for five minutes. Please go ahead, Ms. Ryan.

[Annette Ryan, Deputy Director, Partnership, Policy and Analysis, FINTRAC, As an Individual]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Dear vice-chairs and honourable members of the committee, thank you as well for inviting me today to talk about my candidacy for the position of Parliamentary Budget Officer of Canada.

I will open by honouring the past leaders—in particular Senator Hugh Segal and the Honourable Paul Dewar—who advocated diligently for many years to create the independent parliamentary budget office. Their goal was to deepen the transparency and accountability of Canadian governments to Parliament and Canadians. Informed parliamentary scrutiny is foundational to delivering real results for Canadians and core to the health of our democracy.

I also want to begin by saying that I have the deepest respect for all my predecessors who built the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, or PBO.

As widely reported, the office was recently recognized by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, or OECD, as the best in the world and a highly effective source of independent and credible advice.

The same OECD report provided balanced recommendations to inform its next steps.

I agree with the OECD recommendations and commit to deepening and strengthening PBO attention to the sustainability of the government's overall fiscal track. I will also extend PBO attention to how government budget proposals are executed as they flow through to main and supplementary estimates and into public accounts. This is core to parliamentary business, and it is also core to the practical question of what return Canadians get on the investment of taxes raised from them and in their name.

First, let me introduce myself. My name is Annette Ryan, and I am a proud Atlantic Canadian. I was raised on a family farm in Newfoundland and then in Prince Edward Island. I served as a page in the House of Commons. That was during the original Canada-U.S. free trade debates in 1988. I'm 55—you don't need to do the math. I earned a mathematics degree from Acadia University in Nova Scotia and a master's of economics from Oxford University, which I attended on a Rhodes scholarship.

I started my professional career at the Institute for Fiscal Studies in London, U.K., where I learned to analyze complex datasets to inform pressing economic and fiscal questions: productivity, innovation, wages and employment. I then made a specific decision in 1996 to return to Canada, to my local community and family, in order to work at the Prince Edward Island provincial treasury, where I managed all aspects of transfer payments and income taxes. While I am an “anywhere person” by training, I am a “somewhere person” by choice.

Rather than giving you my professional credentials or describing the projects I've managed over the past three decades, I will talk about my experience working with the ministers I have supported.

At the provincial level, I supported Minister Cheverie in the Liberal government of Catherine Callbeck, and Minister Mella in the Conservative government of Pat Binns.

At the federal level, I have supported Prime Minister Chrétien, Prime Minister Martin, Prime Minister Harper, Minister Baird, Minister Toews, Minister Clement, Minister Paradis, Minister Kenney, Minister Poilievre, Minister Mihychuk, Minister Hajdu, Minister Duclos, Minister Morneau and Minister Freeland.

I also provided support to Minister LeBlanc, and I'm currently providing support to Minister Champagne.

I am here today to seek your approval for a term as PBO in order to put my expertise at your service.

If confirmed as your PBO, I intend to provide you with high-quality, independent and relevant analysis so that you can hold the Prime Minister and his ministers and senior officials to account on questions like this: Can we afford these budget proposals? Are plans robust to higher oil prices, higher interest rates or recession? Who is responsible for executing on commitments?

What will be the growth rate of these investments?

Before concluding, I'd like to briefly come back to the issue of the office's independence, an element fundamental to its credibility.

While the Parliament of Canada Act currently allows a second term for the Parliamentary Budget Officer, I commit today to being a one-term PBO.

I believe that there are certain accountability roles in the senior public service that should not be eligible for reappointment, in the interest of maintaining integrity and independence 100% beyond reproach, and I believe that the Parliamentary Budget Officer is such a role.

To protect the independence of the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, I will refuse a second term.

I want your trust, and I want the trust of Canadians. I want the government to have a clear timeline to appoint my successor. You have my word that I will serve you to the very best of my ability without seeking favour or influence.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Ms. Ryan.

We will begin now with six minutes for Mr. Hallan.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to start today by thanking Jason Jacques for his service as PBO. He upheld the integrity and independence of the office he held as the PBO. He did a tremendous job holding the government to account and providing vital information to parliamentarians. We are disappointed that he was not nominated as the permanent PBO, as we outlined in the Conservatives' letter to the Prime Minister.

Ms. Ryan, thank you for being here. Given the PBO's mandate in the Parliament of Canada Act, including the statement of independence on the PBO website, will you commit to being impartial and transparent if you are the PBO?

[Annette Ryan]

I absolutely commit to being independent, transparent and impartial.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you.

The PBO works for Parliament, not the Prime Minister or any government. Do you commit to maintaining full independence from the executive branch and work for parliamentarians representing Canadians?

[Annette Ryan]

I do indeed.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you.

As it's been reported, you were at Oxford at the same time as Prime Minister Mark Carney. Given your past relationship, how can Canadians be assured you will uphold the impartiality and independence of the PBO office if you become permanent?

[Annette Ryan]

Thank you for that question right off the top.

I've seen the discussion of my past acquaintanceship with the Prime Minister. I took a two-year Master of Economics program at Oxford University. The Prime Minister was already there. He was in the year previous to mine. As Canadians, we knew each other in the program, but we had different social circles and so on.

I saw him again in a professional capacity when I was chief economist at what was then Industry Canada and he was Governor of the Bank of Canada. I supported a committee at the time of roughly 20 deputy ministers, who would meet on a regular basis to discuss economic matters. During that time, I would discuss agenda questions and topics that the deputies might pose to him in those meetings. I typically dealt with his office rather than the governor himself, so I would say that it was really where our professional paths crossed.

I would also add, just for your comfort, that even though we had positive and professional engagements any time we met, I did not have any contact with him after he left to become Governor of the Bank of England.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Ryan, for clearing that up.

Will you commit to never censoring or watering down a report at the request of the government, bureaucracy or the Prime Minister's Office?

[Annette Ryan]

I am very comfortable making that commitment.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you. The reason for these questions is obviously that, as you said, they've been reported. They've been out there in the news, and there's also the track record of this government.

As an example, Mr. Jacques called out the government on the fiscal situation framing as standing “at the precipice” and “looking over the cliff”. He raised concerns about the government's debt-to-GDP ratio deficits and the housing targets. In return, he was not reappointed. We've seen this pattern from the Liberal government before for people who speak out against them. They get dismissed. We saw a clear example with former minister Jody Wilson-Raybould, when she spoke against power.

If you get put in a situation such as that, where you're being pressured by the government to be quiet, will you still speak out?

[Annette Ryan]

I am seeking the role of Parliamentary Budget Officer, which is independent of the government and has as its core mandate to serve parliamentarians. I would see you collectively as my boss.

I think the key of that role is to provide you with exactly that pointy analysis. I look forward to building relationships and listening to you, as to your priorities, and figuring out the best way to support you with not just crunchy analytical papers but also that sense of what the key issues are in terms of fiscal sustainability and the execution of budget commitments. It's why I'm here.

I think we're very aligned, and I look forward to operating just the way you described.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I appreciate the answer. Given the track record of this government, I just wanted to see where you would be at if you were put in a position where you had to speak out against power. We've seen what happens with the Liberal government when that happens; that person is dismissed.

Do you have some steps you would take if you were asked to be quiet without being at risk of a reprimand?

[Annette Ryan]

Again, inasmuch as I see the role as serving Parliament, it is not the role of the government to provide reprimand. To the extent that they can have differing views about the nature of my analysis, I very much welcome that. That is very much the tradition I came up in.

I believe in building out the analysis of the PBO with full transparency to support exactly that discussion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

You have 20 seconds.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I'll save my other questions for the next round.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Great. Thank you very much, Mr. Hallan.

Mr. Leitão, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Carlos Leitão, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, Ms. Ryan. Thank you for joining us and taking part in this process.

We recognize the value of the role the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer plays. As you said, it's an independent body that reports to Parliament, not to any particular minister. We're well aware of that. We're also well aware of how useful such a body is.

You talked about your experience and expertise in this area. You also referred to the recent OECD reports. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

For example, how will you ensure what's in a budget is implemented? I'm talking about the implementation of recommendations contained in a budget. I think it's very important those types of recommendations be implemented. Can you talk about how you view that part of your role?

[Annette Ryan]

Thank you very much for the question.

I've worked for three central agencies here in Ottawa, as well as for the Prince Edward Island counterpart to the Department of Finance. I'm very familiar with the budget and estimates processes. I understand the difference between what's in the budget and what's allowed in the estimates.

I'll go back to your question about how to track the promises in the budget documents from budget day through to the end of fiscal, as well as in subsequent fiscal years. I would consider asking departments about the critical path or their implementation plan for major projects or ongoing programs, both before and at the beginning of the estimates process, to give everyone an update on how things are progressing and whether deadlines and expectations are being met.

[Carlos Leitão, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Does that mean Treasury Board would be monitored a little more closely?

[Annette Ryan]

I think it's necessary for this kind of analysis.

As I said, I've worked at the Treasury Board Secretariat managing the expenditure research team. At that time, I built a database system to follow the money, from the budget to the voted budgetary authorities and public accounts. I think it's possible to increase this sort of accounting by keeping an eye on projects.

[Carlos Leitão, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Okay, thank you very much.

Let's move on to another topic, one quite popular these days. Canada isn't the only country facing this situation. Not only is the world constantly evolving, it's also constantly changing. The traditional order is no longer. You said you were there when the free trade agreement negotiations began. Before, everyone understood the rules governing the international order. Now, there is a great deal of uncertainty. Obviously, that has an impact on a government's economic forecasts and, therefore, on a budget's evolution as revenues and expenditures change.

How do you see your role as Parliamentary Budget Officer in this new environment of great uncertainty and wide variations like never before? Do you see your role as not only analyzing the situation, but perhaps making recommendations to the government? Given the current context, including the war in the Middle East, rising energy prices and a possible global recession, do you see your role as also advising the government?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

A very brief answer, please.

[Carlos Leitão, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

We can also come back to it later.