Evidence of meeting #16 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requirements.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Bevan  Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Aquaculture Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
William J. Nash  Director General, Marine Safety, Department of Transport
Victor Santos-Pedro  Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy

I call the meeting to order pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the study on the issues of the new rules of boat stability and, in particular, the matter of the fishery boat length requirement.

I would like to welcome our witnesses: David Bevan, assistant deputy minister, from fisheries and aquaculture management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans; from the Department of Transportation, Mr. Victor Santos-Pedro, director of design equipment and boating safety, together with William Nash, director general for marine safety.

Welcome, gentlemen.

If you have a presentation, Mr. Bevan, you know the drill. You've been here enough times. I'll let you go ahead.

11:05 a.m.

David Bevan Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Aquaculture Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Mr. Chair, we'll be looking at vessel length and safety. Vessel length rules came into play in the 1970s. They were put in place in an attempt to limit the capitalization of the fleet and the capacity of the fleet. They gradually became criteria for defining fishing fleets on allocation and access. So we have a 45-foot limit, a 65-foot limit, and so on.

After the demise of groundfish in the 1980s and 1990s, we saw that the fisheries changed significantly. We went from groundfish to shellfish fisheries. We went from single-species to multi-species licence holders. The main fleet of small vessels evolved to hit the limits that were imposed. Then they changed their shape at those limits and went from fishing on the inshore areas to fishing farther afield.

The changing conditions led to small fishing vessels with different gear, contrary to their design. The vessels were fishing multi-species when they were designed to fish groundfish. Small vessels were fishing farther offshore, particularly in the crab fishery, and as a result may have been exposed to unsafe conditions. Vessel owners opted for vessel design modifications to accommodate these new conditions within the constraints of the size limits.

Flexibility of vessel replacement was provided to fishers operating under self-rationalization systems, like ITQs. You'll see a completely different shape of vessel in those fleets. They are more fuel efficient and sea kindly.

We saw that the number of search and rescue incidents and fatal accidents rose during this period. This led DFO in 2000 to review, in collaboration with Transport Canada, the root causes of safety at sea. They weren't simple. They were a combination of many elements, including human error, loading stability, vessel size, weather, training, vessel maintenance, and economic viability.

Economic viability has an impact on vessel safety. When people don't have the money to reinvest, it seems the safety equipment goes first, certainly before the ability to catch fish. So gear for fish harvesting is the priority for fishermen. It takes precedence over safety when economic viability is in question.

What is key is that a vessel, whatever its size, has to meet Transport Canada's stability requirements. It has to be used in a reasonable way for the purpose for which it was built or for which it has been modified. It can't be used for purposes inconsistent with its design.

We've incorporated vessel safety considerations into the fishery management planning process. We have flexibility on opening and closing dates, allowing people more time to get gear out of the water, if it is warranted. We've taken weather into consideration, for example, in the Pacific as the result of a tragic herring season back in the 1980s. The weather is a key consideration in opening or closing, and we've also changed how those fisheries are prosecuted, to allow more reasonable fishing practices.

We're reviewing the regulations and policies on safety at sea, and we're looking at the vessel size limitations, taking safety into consideration.

In 2003 we offered fleets more flexibility with respect to vessel replacement policies. Provided they met a number of principles, they would be given flexibility to move beyond the size limitations that were imposed. These principles include no compromise of conservation, and no need to accommodate larger vessels by moving quota allocations from one fleet to another.

I would say, however, that few fleets have actually taken advantage of this flexibility. There's resistance to moving ahead with changing fish management. People are comfortable with the management regimes they're under, and they haven't taken advantage of the changes in those regimes to avoid the current vessel replacement rules, or rather, the old length restrictions.

We have seen some modifications in the Maritimes region where there's been movement beyond the 65-foot vessel. A small portion of fishers are currently affected by the 45- and 65-foot barriers, mostly in Newfoundland.

I would point out that the problem has been particularly acute in Newfoundland since the shift from inshore groundfish to crab fisheries. You use the same vessel, but different gear, obviously, and different configurations, and they have bumped up against the limits, more so than many of the other fleets. We've seen size limitations in lobster, but they don't lead to the same kinds of concerns as we have had in the Newfoundland fleets.

On the Atlantic fishing industry's viability, initiatives are under way to review and renew the Atlantic fishing industry. We see that as an opportunity to perhaps consider different ways of approaching the management, which might allow that flexibility we provided in 2003 to actually be used by the fishing fleets. We are looking at ways to work with the industry in terms of putting the fishery back on an economic footing, which will help with vessel safety, not just because of the opportunity to reconsider replacement rules, but also because if people are making a reasonable living, they'll be able to recapitalize their vessels and to ensure the vessels are suited to the fishing they're undertaking, as well as having the proper safety equipment.

In conclusion, the size of fishing vessels is one of many factors that can affect safety at sea. We're factoring safety at sea into our fish management plans, and are expecting our fish managers and fishery officers to exercise judgment in implementing fishing plans, so they can avoid pushing people out into dangerous conditions. We're looking at managing the fisheries, while Transport Canada regulates safety. We're cooperating on improving the safety of fishing vessels and have developed a memorandum of understanding that will be signed shortly, with a view to having more cooperation and more opportunities to have Transport Canada and Fisheries and Oceans work together with the fishermen to improve safety at sea.

Thank you.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy

Thank you.

Mr. Bevan, do any of your other presenters have anything to say, or is there just one overview?

11:10 a.m.

William J. Nash Director General, Marine Safety, Department of Transport

Mr. Chair, my name is Bill Nash. Following on from the DFO presentation, I'd like to give a brief overview on the stability requirements for small fishing vessels. I'll be covering the following points during my presentation: the current stability requirements, the application of risk factors, and the proposed new requirements. And then I'll end with a brief summary.

What is ship stability? Simply put, ship stability is a measure of a vessel's ability to remain upright in a seaway. A stability booklet sets out the various flotation and stability requirements to be used to instruct the master and crew about the safe limits under which a vessel can load and operate--in other words, they would be calculations for when the vessel is fully loaded, full of fish, or in a light condition, or has ice accretion in the upper deck--all of which would provide information on the characteristics of the vessel and its ability to remain at sea safely.

All fishing vessels over 150 gross tons--we refer to them as large fishing vessels--are required to have stability calculations and a stability booklet. Small fishing vessels that are between 15 and 150 gross tons also require stability booklets if they are carrying capelin or herring, as these fish react like fluid in the fish hold and can cause stability problems. For other vessels, it's dependent on the attending marine safety inspector whether the vessel requires a stability assessment or not.

There is no requirement for small fishing vessels under 15 gross tons to have a stability assessment, as most traditional small fishing vessels that constitute the bulk of the inshore fleet are not expected to have stability concerns associated with their design and would therefore not be required to have a stability booklet. However, Transport Canada recommends that all fishers assess the stability characteristics of their vessels, including those under 15 gross tons.

As you may be aware, the Transportation Safety Board has identified stability as a contributing factor in many small vessel incidents and accidents and, as a consequence, has made recommendations to us that all fishing vessels be subject to a stability assessment. In response to this and to clarify our policy for marine safety inspectors in requiring a stability assessment for those vessels between 15 and 150 gross tons, Transport Canada issued a ship safety bulletin in May of this year outlining what would allow a marine safety inspector to require additional stability tests where seaworthiness may be questioned.

A self-assessment form was provided that outlined six risk factors that could affect the stability of a vessel. In other words, stability assessments would only be required when one of the following at-risk factors exist: there's an anti-roll tank fitted to the vessel, a carriage of liquid cargo or live wells, substantial top weight, a vessel operating in an area and time of year where icing to the upper structure may occur, vessels with significant windage--in other words, high-sided vessels--and those that have made structural modifications or have had a change in their fishing operations.

The bulletin was distributed to all owners of small fishing vessels, even those below 15 gross tons, and it was done to raise their awareness of the risks and encourage them to obtain stability booklets where the risk factors are present.

We're in the process of developing new fishing vessel safety regulations applicable to vessels under 150 gross tons. Requirements for stability booklets may be extended to all new and existing vessels more than 15 metres in length, and vessels from 9 to 15 metres that have specific risk factors. A phase-in period, which is yet to determined, would apply.

Under the proposed regulations, vessels that are more than six metres in length and do not require a stability booklet must pass a simplified safety assessment and have an indicator, such as a hull marking to indicate minimum freeboard, in other words, a loading mark to which the vessel could be loaded. Vessels six metres or less must meet flotation and swamping requirements and will be required to have a capacity plate to indicate the maximum load the vessel can carry.

I would add that during consultations, the fishing industry has indicated it feels the cost of implementing these proposals may put fishers out of business. In general, it believes that the proposed stability requirements are not warranted and that education would be more effective in terms of reducing incidents.

From a current status perspective, in order to address the industry's concerns, Transport Canada has undertaken to research and develop a statistical analysis of fishing vessel risk factors and relate these to the proposed requirements. Using this information, a cost-benefit analysis will also be undertaken.

Our overarching principle is to apply stability requirements where there are identified risks. This principle is in fact being used today as per the ship safety bulletin that I mentioned earlier. The proposed regulations will be reviewed and amended based on the results of the analyses, and we expect to pre-publish these new regulations in the Canada Gazette Part I late in 2007, with a view to bringing them into force some time in 2008. We continue to consult and support education and training programs for the industry as well.

In summary, the Transportation Safety Board has identified stability as a contributing factor in fishing vessel incidents, and capsizing and founderings are among the most frequent causes of fatalities. Stability requirements are in place for fishing vessels over 150 gross tons and for those between 15 and 115 gross tons, based on risk factors.

The new proposed fishing vessel safety regulations under development are, as I mentioned, forecast to be pre-published in late 2007 and will cover some sort of stability requirements for all fishing vessels. We continue to support the education aspect, and I'd like to point out that safety is a shared responsibility and all vessels are safer when operated correctly and the stability characteristics are understood and are used for their designed purpose.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my brief overview on what exists and what we're planning with respect to fishing vessel safety.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy

Thank you, Mr. Nash.

Mr. MacAulay.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

I'll ask Mr. Nash a question. On the requirement, you're talking about the six-metre vessels, that there could be new requirements and booklets required. That would apply to most of the lobster fleet in my area. Is that correct?

11:20 a.m.

Director General, Marine Safety, Department of Transport

William J. Nash

Victor, maybe you could give details on that.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

It's only 18 ft.

11:20 a.m.

Victor Santos-Pedro Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport

That's right.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

What requirements do you plan to put in place, and will the committee be aware of what requirements are going to be in place? On new regulations, what new regulations do you expect will be put in place, or what requirements would be put in place for these boats?

11:20 a.m.

Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport

Victor Santos-Pedro

Right now, for the vessels under six metres, we are intending to use what we call capacity plates, such as are now used for the calculations of, for example, pleasure craft, recreational boats. As part of that, it could be simply that the stability is established by the fact that it has sufficient flotation or that the vessel, if filled with water, would not sink. For the smaller vessels, it would be a minimum type of requirement, and not a stability booklet. The stability booklet is reserved for the larger vessels.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

Okay. Most of that would be over 34 feet 11 inches. Am I correct? Most of the lobster boats are less than 35 feet long.

11:20 a.m.

Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport

Victor Santos-Pedro

May I make a comment about this? I know the connection between stability and length is that the fishing vessel safety regulations do not tie in with the cut-offs, the lengths that are used by DFO. They have been established simply for regulatory convenience and they do not tie in to those same lengths. It's one of the reasons we put the feet in the presentation, because it is different from what the Department of Fisheries and Oceans uses for fisheries management purposes.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

So you're telling me that there wouldn't be any new requirements for boats under 35 feet long used for the inshore fishery.

11:20 a.m.

Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport

Victor Santos-Pedro

No, I'm not saying that, sir.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

If there are new requirements, are we going to be aware of the new requirements before they're put in place and imposed upon the fishermen?

11:20 a.m.

Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport

Victor Santos-Pedro

Absolutely. We have been discussing the new requirements. The consultation has been, even up to now, quite extensive, including the fishermen from.... You're from P.E.I., sir.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

That's correct.

11:20 a.m.

Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport

Victor Santos-Pedro

They insisted that I come down and see their boats first-hand, and I have. We're very aware of the type of boat used in P.E.I. for lobster and the kinds of safety requirements. We're taking that into consideration in the proposal. It does depend on the size of the vessel.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

You, of course, are aware of the size of what the inshore lobster fishermen use.

11:20 a.m.

Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

What you're telling me in fact is that I and the committee will be aware of what requirements, if any, are going to be put in place for these fishermen, and that there will be consultation with them before it will be done.

I'm just thinking of some of the things, like the rafts and so forth, that were put in place. We don't want requirements for the inshore fishermen under 35 feet that would be required for boats that go out a lot longer and out a lot farther. That's what I'm concerned about, and that's what the lobster fishermen are concerned about.

11:20 a.m.

Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport

Victor Santos-Pedro

And that is very well understood. Those vessels that are specifically designed for the lobster inshore fishermen are also used for other purposes and for other fisheries, and they go out for caplin and herring, and those vessels will have a different requirement.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

Does anybody else have anything?

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy

Mr. Byrne, you have about five minutes.