Fisheries Committee on Feb. 13th, 2012

[Andrew Storey]

It comes down to how they're operated, and there are a lot of good operators. I think one of the reasons that we've gone after our technology is because there are limitations with the existing net-pen systems relative to things like geography, and such. The name of our company is Open Ocean Systems, so we see ultimately moving into more open-ocean types of environments, and such.

However, as we go through the development phase we have found that the attributes have been very favourable to a number of different situations. If you look at the business models, there seems to be very good space for technology like ours to operate on a smaller scale. We can do it on a large scale as well.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Okay. You're obviously investing in a demonstration project, and you're looking at a land-based system as well.

[Andrew Storey]

I'm sorry, is that for him?

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm going to switch to either Mr. Robertson or Mr. Walsh.

[Bill Robertson]

You were doing so well.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

It's the same question about investing. If you recognize there is a problem with traditional fish-farming, open-net fish farms, what is the rationale for investing in a closed system?

[Bill Robertson]

As I said in my remarks, the current open net-pen systems occur in a variety of geographic areas. Mr. Storey has been talking about looking at the carrying capacity of the specific environment in which you're operating. These open net-pen systems have organic loading associated with them. In some cases it's not a problem and it's difficult to demonstrate any kind of impact. In other cases, because of the ecology you're dealing with, organic loading will occur and it's possible to demonstrate a loss of biodiversity.

The answer may not necessarily be moving straight toward closed containment, but you may be able to mitigate those effects by including biological filtration. That will be described by Dr. Chopin here in this IMTA piece. This biological infiltration comes in the form of shellfish, plants, and a whole series of things, and they're very site-specific. You may have to go back and apply a different technological platform, like the one you're looking at, with a different system that forces you to think about balancing your production with the carrying capacity of the environment.

There may be circumstances where none of those things are appropriate, and moving the net-pen system to land in tanks is appropriate. I think a comment was made earlier about that. To do that you need to have the right set of circumstances, including access to power, which would mean very limited application in what's happening today with open net-pen systems.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I'll maybe in my remaining time squeeze in one last question for Mr. Storey.

I'm curious about how this system would deal with diseases and parasites, such as ISAV, disease-wise, or any kind of sea lice, parasite-wise.

[Andrew Storey]

Again, this is where science and technology are going to help move us along.

With respect to sea lice, for instance, there is very good evidence to suggest that sea lice infestation happens in the top two or three metres of water. Sea lice have a very well-known life cycle. Again and again the science is suggesting that submerging the fish during that time can have a potential mitigating impact.

It also comes to the flow of water through the cages. The iCage has been optimized to maximize the flow of water through the cages, which keeps the oxygen flowing through the cages and takes away the metabolites. In theory—you've talked to people such as Mr. Robertson and many others—that should lead to potentially healthier fish, with maybe a little bit healthier immune systems and such, in certain situations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Leef.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have the wonderful advantage of technology in front of me, so I have quickly gone on and looked at one of the pictures.

I'm wondering if maybe before we proceed we could ask for unanimous consent to distribute the picture you have, because I think it would be helpful for everyone who doesn't have an iPad.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Is there unanimous consent to distribute the document in its present form?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

My first question will be for Mr. Robertson or Mr. Walsh, whoever feels comfortable answering.

Are you aware of the Namgis project that's going on right now in British Columbia?

[Bill Robertson]

Yes.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Okay. Would you be able to comment on how your proposal differs from what's going on on the west coast?

[Bill Robertson]

I think the key difference has to do with the uniqueness of the Huntsman Centre. First of all, we are a marine biology field station. We happen to have education as part of our mandate, but we also have a public aquarium. Our view is that if we were to do one of these, it would make sense to index it, in real time, to one of the commercial salmon farms that are within a 10-kilometre radius of our operation and have it open to the general public. That is the fundamental difference.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Are you just at the discussion stage right now, or have you attempted some costing of that kind of project?

[Bill Robertson]

We have some very preliminary costing. Mr. Storey referred earlier to one of the models done by one of the DFO studies. When you look at the costing of that model, there's a fair amount of money involved in the various items, which we already have and could deploy as in-kind costs. Our view is that we could mitigate those costs significantly.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

We've had some interesting discussion. I think you said that this is starting to become more of a discussion of economics. We've certainly heard the rural and urban discussion around it.

Being from a small northern riding up in the Yukon, I see some industry, such as trapping, for example, that goes on up there. While I appreciate your comment about it being just an economic issue, I wonder if enough of the social and cultural practices of rural Canadians are built into that formula. When I specifically think about the trapping industry, so much of their activity out on the land, regardless of the economic outcome, provides tremendous value to the community at large in terms of protecting heritage and culture and those sorts of things. I wonder how much weight is put on that in any of these projects. I could easily translate that back to Atlantic Canada and say that having people on the ocean working on the ocean contributes so much to Canadian culture and Canadian identity. If we pull everything onto the land, we lose something that's historically very valuable to us.

I certainly have made a commitment to my riding to try to preserve our past and protect it from neglect. I just wanted to hear maybe some comments on how we ensure that those things that are so valuable are given due weight, at least in a discussion that is starting to stream more towards the economics.

[Bill Robertson]

Well, you're absolutely right, and I certainly appreciate your values in terms of trying to preserve that way of life. I think what we're trying to suggest to you is that there is no one answer to the story. It's not simply a case of saying let's take all the nets out of the ocean and put all the fish in tanks. That's just not the answer. What we're suggesting is that there's sort of a paradigm of answers, depending on what the issue is and where you locate it.

However, ultimately it will be the marketplace that determines whether or not these things have longevity.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Storey, I'm just wondering if you know the stats on the escape rate for your style of iCage versus the current open net.

[Andrew Storey]

Pardon me?

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

On the escape rates, the difference between iCage and—