Evidence of meeting #20 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Prawn Producers
Yes, but even at 10,000 tonnes, this still would be Canada's largest shrimp area. It has gone from large to extremely large, and it's shrinking back to still larger than most other areas.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
It is possible, then, that the current level of fishing had little to do with the decline we're seeing in the shrimp.
4:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Prawn Producers
The scientists couldn't detect any impact of fishing on the increase. They just couldn't find it in the noise, the levels were so low. They're not so sure about the way down, but they're still not able to detect what that impact could be.
We're still setting the total allowable catches according the MSC-accredited harvest control rules, which we agree with. Even though we're not sure it will make much difference, we have no choice. We have to believe it will make a difference.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
Mr. Lugar, I'll make the comment that as a Canadian elected official who represents a rural resource area, I have an instinctive aversion to certification of Canadian natural resource management practices, simply because the buck should stop with elected officials, not with organizations resident in foreign countries. Too often Canada has been victimized by these kinds of efforts. Yours is probably not one of them. The professionalism of your group is evident. Nevertheless, I'm extremely sensitive to these kinds of efforts, and question industries buying into them on a regular basis.
Having said that, Mr. Lugar, from your experience has there ever been a case of a shrimp population recovering from such a decline as this when draconian fishery catch reduction limits have been put in place?
4:35 p.m.
Fisheries Outreach Manager, Americas, Marine Stewardship Council
That's an interesting question. I honestly don't have the knowledge to answer that. Shrimp populations vary by jurisdiction, not only here in Canada in the northern shrimp fishery but also in the Barents Sea and elsewhere, so I honestly can't answer that question. I don't have enough knowledge.
If I may address your first point briefly—
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
I don't have much time, unfortunately, and I have one more quick question for you.
What if there cannot be a rebuilding plan? What if this decline in the shrimp is because of natural causes, not because of overfishing? In your documentation, the only tool you look at is a reduction in fishing effort as a way to rebuild stocks. What if that's simply not possible?
4:35 p.m.
Fisheries Outreach Manager, Americas, Marine Stewardship Council
What our program would assess is how well the management regime is responding to the situation it faces. You could have a very well-managed fishery at 10% of the current biomass levels of northern shrimp. It just depends on how the management system applies the principles that they have agreed to.
I made the point in my presentation that the reference points that were established in the mid-2000s and that are currently in use are a reflection of the productivity regime that was in place at the time. When that regime changes through the science approach, through DFO and industry collectively, I'm sure they can find new reference points and manage accordingly. Our system would evaluate that.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, gentlemen.
Mr. Butler, it's good to see you again. The odd time, we're on the same page.
4:35 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Association of Seafood Producers
Or in the same picture....
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
You were indicating the difference between the bottom line for Iceland and Norway compared with the bottom line in the Newfoundland fishery. Am I correct in assuming you feel that the offshore boats are much more efficient? If so, what happens to the processing plants inside? If that is the case, there will be no processing.
It's my understanding, having had DFO here a few days ago, that the decline is not over. Also, the water is getting warmer, which means that reproduction will not be as fast either, if I understand correctly. I'd like you to address that.
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Association of Seafood Producers
Thanks for the question.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Also, if you would indicate, Mr. Butler, perhaps.... I've done a little bit of travelling and I think you mentioned the word “China”. I think it's a massive population and why are we not...? For example, why is this Australian lobster, which is of so much less quality than ours, so much more expensive in China than our lobster, if you can find it there?
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Association of Seafood Producers
Perhaps I'll deal with these in reverse order. I'm not familiar with the lobster fishery. We have a $25-million fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador. I don't negotiate the prices for lobster. It's handled by another smaller association. I'm not too familiar with it, so I can't speak to the difference between our values and the values for Australian lobster.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
I can use other examples, because it looks to me like there's quite a difference between them, and China is such a large market. I suspect that it's the same thing in a lot of other fisheries too.
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Association of Seafood Producers
That they're paying more for product from other jurisdictions than they pay for product from our jurisdiction...?
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Association of Seafood Producers
The honest answer is that I don't know.
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Association of Seafood Producers
I don't think Asia in general pays any less for our product than they would pay for Alaskan snow crab, for example.
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Association of Seafood Producers
Dollar for dollar, spec for spec, we are at the same value in the marketplace for the same snow crab.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Okay. Ignore that question then.
I'd love you to respond to what you think will happen to the inshore fishery in looking at what's going to take place if the DFO scientists are right and we think the decline is not over.
