Fisheries Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I now call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 100 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

This meeting, of course, is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Before we proceed, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

For interpretation for those on Zoom, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

Please address all comments through the chair.

As a quick reminder before we proceed, I want to tell members and witnesses to be careful when handling your earpieces, especially when your microphone or your neighbours' microphones are turned on. Earpieces placed too close to a microphone are one of the most common causes of sound feedback, which is extremely harmful to the interpreters and causes serious injury.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on February 15, 2024, the committee is commencing its study of the scales used by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to set redfish quotas.

Welcome, everyone.

Today we have the Department of Fisheries and Oceans with us. Of course, we have a number of them back again. We have Adam Burns, assistant deputy minister, programs sector; Bernard Vigneault, director general, ecosystem science directorate; Todd Williams, senior director, fisheries resource management operations; and, by video conference, we have Sylvain Vézina, regional director general, Quebec region; and Doug Wentzell, regional director general, gulf region.

Thank you for taking the time to appear today.

You have time for an opening statement of five minutes or less, please.

The floor is yours.

[Adam Burns, Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for having us today to talk about the minister's recent decisions on unit 1 redfish and the shrimp fishery in the estuary in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

My name is Adam Burns, assistant deputy minister of the Program Sector responsible for fisheries and harbour management at Fisheries and Oceans Canada.

I'd like to begin by acknowledging that the land on which we are meeting is the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe. The peoples of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation have lived on this territory for millennia, and their culture and presence have nurtured and continue to nurture this land.

The recent increase in redfish biomass and the move to a commercial fishery is a good news story, but not without its challenges. The reopening of the fishery offers a unique opportunity to do things differently given the socio-economic changes since the moratorium, particularly with respect to advancing indigenous reconciliation.

The department undertook consultations in 2021 and 2022 with indigenous groups and a range of stakeholders from eastern Canada. Participants were offered several opportunities to provide views on access, allocation and the principles they believed were important for the minister to consider in her decision.

There is no defined mechanism in DFO policies to rank or weigh the various criteria in access and allocation decisions. However, with the adoption of the amended Fisheries Act in 2019, the considerations for deciding on an access and allocation key (among possible others) are contained directly in legislation.

The minister's decision delivers on the commitment to indigenous reconciliation. It respects and maintains the inshore and midshore mobile fleets' historical access, and it provides 10% allocation to estuary and gulf shrimpers to contribute to the fleets' adjustments in response to the significant declines in that fishery.

In terms of next steps, there is more work to be done to operationalize the Unit 1 fishery for the upcoming season.

The department will meet with the redfish advisory committee in March to discussion recommendations for the total allowable catch, bycatch and other management measures as well as the sharing of the inshore mobile gear fleet and indigenous allocations.

Groundfish and shrimp fisheries in the Estuary and Gulf of St. Lawrence have been intimately linked for decades. In 2022, shrimpers’ income was at the lowest level in thirteen years, and operating costs (fuel prices and wage increases) were at their highest. This negatively influenced the profitability of the fishery and the viability of the industry.

The 2023 season was very difficult. Catch rates in the most frequented fishing areas were less than 40% of the previous year. In response to continued declines, the 2024 total allowable catch was reduced to 3,060 tonnes, a 79% reduction.

Northern shrimp is a cold-water species. With warming and oxygen depletion in deep waters, shrimp are exposed to increasingly unfavourable environmental conditions. Notably, redfish predation on shrimp has increased significantly since 2017 and is considered to be a factor in the decline of shrimp. The total estimated biomass of redfish in the gulf was less than 100,000 tonnes in 2013, and, by 2021, the biomass was 2.8 million tonnes.

Until 2020, reductions in shrimp were partly mitigated by higher prices. Low fishing yields combined with very high operating costs, exacerbated by COVID-19 and inflation, have created major profitability challenges for this specialized and undiversified fleet.

The status of shrimp stocks is not expected to improve. Since shrimp play a key role as a forage species in the ecosystem, caution needs to be exercised when exploiting this resource.

The department is working diligently to address the various challenges in both the gulf shrimp and the unit 1 redfish fisheries.

We'd be happy to take your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to our questions.

We'll start off with Mr. Small for six minutes or less, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the officials for coming out today to help us out with this study and to try to make sense of it all.

This is the third time the minister has been invited to this committee since we came back in the new year.

Why is she hiding away and not coming to committee to answer for the mess she's made of the unit 1 redfish quota allocation for 2024?

[Adam Burns]

Thanks, Chair, and thanks for the question.

I'm not able to answer questions related to the minister's schedule and availability.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Okay, I guess you can't answer.

After eight years and six DFO ministers—you're well aware who they all were—with this NDP-Liberal coalition, minister number six has set the unit 1 redfish quota at a mere 25,000 tonnes, when science has recommended that it can be 318,000 metric tons.

Why is the minister not responding to science when she's making this allocation and when there are so many factors that are detrimental to the balance of the ecosystem in unit 1 because of this redfish bloom?

[Adam Burns]

The minister's announcement was that the total allowable catch would be a minimum of 25,000 tonnes.

Further consultation will occur next week. A variety of factors will need to be taken into account, including the development of the industry and the development of markets. Next week, consultations will be undertaken and the views of industry will then inform the minister's ultimate decision on what the total allowable catch should be.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Burns, this Liberal-NDP coalition has been in power for eight years. There are eight billion people in the world. What have they been doing to try to get a market for redfish? It seems to me to be nothing.

Are you aware of anything this government has done to promote redfish to the eight billion people in the world?

[Adam Burns]

DFO's role is as a regulator of the industry.

Certainly the minister has directed us to undertake consultations next week to work with industry to understand its needs and what an appropriate total allowable catch for the introduction of this fishery would be.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

There are 70,000 metric tons of bait used in crab and lobster fisheries in Atlantic Canada and Quebec.

Has there been anything undertaken—some kind of process—to come up with an integrated bait management plan to help redfish harvesters and to bring down the price of bait?

Redfish works for lobster and crab quite well. Has anything been done to promote redfish as the number one bait in Atlantic Canada?

[Adam Burns]

Indeed, the department has been working with industry, provinces and others on options for alternative bait. I know that there are some redfish, certainly from unit 1 and possibly unit 2, that are currently being purchased and sold as bait.

Of course, the preference is for a value-added industry that would provide a greater economic benefit to the coastal communities.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Burns, I heard you mention the 2,500 tonnes that were allocated for shrimpers.

How much per licence—per vessel—is that?

[Adam Burns]

The minister's announcement was for a 10% allocation that would go specifically to shrimp-affected harvesters.

Consultations next week will include a discussion around how to suballocate that quota.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Is that, like, 50,000 or 60,000 pounds per vessel at this stage?

[Adam Burns]

We're waiting to have the consultation next week to understand how the shrimp fleet itself would like to see that quota distributed.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

That's obviously not going to work for that fleet.

What's your plan for the 4RST shrimpers now that their shrimp stock has been destroyed by redfish predation?

They're sitting there with $2-million or $3-million vessels tied to the wharf, just laying idle, with harvesting capacity ready to roll.

What's the plan for them?

[Adam Burns]

The department's engaged with the shrimp fleet, certainly, to understand what policy flexibilities might assist them in adjusting to the significant declines. Of course, the shrimp stock has been declining for a number of years, and some adjustments have already been made to the policy frame, but clearly more will be needed.

In addition to that, the minister did make the allocation of the additional redfish beyond what the shrimp fleet would receive otherwise, as they are all groundfish harvesters as well, so the minister's also made that allocation to help support their transition.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

In the determining of the unit 1 redfish quota allocations, what was given the most weight? Was it historical attachment or adjacency?

[Adam Burns]

The minister sought to advance a couple of key policy objectives in the adjustments to the redfish quota key, both providing an allocation to help shrimp harvesters adjust to the declines in that stock and advancing reconciliation. The specific distribution of those two quotas will be further consulted on, as I mentioned, next week.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Is the sharing arrangement that's there carved in stone? What's the minister doing? Does she have any direction? Does she know where she's going with this?

[Adam Burns]

The minister has announced the fleet shares, and what we'll be doing next week is consulting on the suballocation of those fleet shares, how the fleets and the harvesters themselves would like to see those quotas managed within the fleet.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

So, those allocations, those percentages by fleets and groups, are carved in stone.

[Adam Burns]

Yes, the minister's already announced those decisions following a prolonged period of consultation that we started back in 2021.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Was the PMO involved in that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Small. You've gone over your time.

We'll now go to Mr. Cormier for six minutes or less, please.