Fisheries Committee on March 19th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Welcome back, members.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on February 8, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of plans to prevent violence during the 2024 elver fishing season.

On our first panel today, we have a number of witnesses on Zoom and others here in person.

On Zoom, from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, we have Darren Campbell, chief superintendent, criminal operations officer, New Brunswick; and Sue Black, chief superintendent, criminal operations officer, Nova Scotia.

From the Canada Border Services Agency, we have, in our committee room today, Dominic Mallette, regional director general, Atlantic region; and Cathy Toxopeus, director general, commercial programs.

I apologize for butchering anybody's name, but I'm from Newfoundland and I'm not well versed in a lot of these names, so please be patient.

From the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, we have Kevin Urbanic, director general, Ontario operations; and Parthi Muthukumarasamy, executive director, international programs directorate.

We'll now go to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency for an opening statement of five minutes or less.

[Dr. Parthi Muthukumarasamy, Executive Director, International Programs Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good afternoon.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak to the committee members today on this important topic.

My name is Dr. Parthi Muthukumarasamy, and I work as executive director for international programs at the CFIA. I am accompanied by Kevin Urbanic, director general for Ontario operations.

Today, I will provide an overview of the CFIA’s role in the export and import of juvenile American eels, also known as baby eels or elvers.

Elvers are generally not exported for direct human consumption as food. Instead, elvers are exported to be grown on aquaculture farms in the importing country until they develop into adults and are then harvested to be used as food.

The CFIA regulates the export and import of live animals, including aquatic animals, under the Health of Animals Act and regulations. The export and import requirements for the trade of live animals, including aquatic animals, are primarily in place to prevent the introduction of animal diseases and diseases that could be transmitted from animals to humans.

In general, in order to provide assurances that the exported live animals, or animal products, meet an importing country’s requirements related to animal and human health, an official export certificate endorsed by the CFIA is required for clearing the shipment in the importing country. These export certificates are issued by the CFIA only when required by the importing country, and when the conditions for exports included in the certificate are established between the CFIA and the importing country.

Most countries do not require an export certification from the CFIA for the export of American elvers intended for aquaculture. Thus, the CFIA does not have an oversight for elvers exported to these countries that do not require an export certificate.

We note from earlier meetings of this committee that some members are interested in elver exports to China. Currently, China requires an export certificate from Canada for the export of elvers for aquaculture purposes. This certificate for the export of elvers was last issued in 2017 and has not been issued since then.

In the case of Hong Kong, it does not require an export certificate for the export of elvers from Canada unless the elvers are intended for re-export from Hong Kong to China. The last time CFIA issued an export certificate for the export of elvers to Hong Kong was June 2019.

From the import perspective, and the import of American eels or elvers into Canada, the CFIA currently does not require an aquatic animal health import permit or export certificate, as American eels are not known to be susceptible to any of the CFIA-regulated diseases.

The CFIA continues to work with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans on the export and import of elvers as it relates to animal and public health.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are pleased to respond to any questions pertaining to the CFIA’s role in elver exports and imports.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to Mr. Mallette from the Canada Border Services Agency for an opening statement of five minute or less, please.

[Dominic Mallette, Regional Director General, Atlantic Region, Canada Border Services Agency]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, everyone.

Members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to appear before you.

I first want to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the traditional, unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

I would like to underscore that the illegal fishing of American eel elvers is of great concern to the CBSA, and I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to the committee's study on this topic.

I will share with the committee the roles and responsibilities of the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, as they relate to preventing the illegal elver fishery and the export of illegally caught elvers.

The CBSA plays a supporting role by verifying that other departmental requirements are met for fish and seafood imported into and exported from Canada, and by administering the Customs Act.

The CBSA works closely with departments and agencies, such as the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, to ensure, among other things, that fish, seafood and seafood products being imported to and exported from Canada are compliant with program legislation.

Upon identification of a specific shipment or commodity of concern by DFO, the CBSA works jointly with DFO to identify and intercept shipments to ensure compliance with all government regulations.

The CBSA is actively working to prevent the export of illegally caught elvers. There are currently no licences, permits or certificates prescribed in any OGD legislation that must be presented or verified at the border in order to export fish, including elvers, from Canada. The only exceptions are the endangered species controlled under the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act, which includes the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora.

In this respect, the CBSA assists Environment and Climate Change Canada with the administration and enforcement of these acts by ensuring that any shipments are accompanied by the required permits. Suspected non-compliant shipments are detained and referred to ECCC wildlife enforcement officers. The CBSA may also notify ECCC of wildlife taken in contravention of provincial laws, which is an offence under the act.

Currently, American eel elvers are not protected by CITES.

The CBSA collects statistical information on the export of certain fish and certain fishing catches through its electronic reporting requirements. This information is transmitted daily to Statistics Canada by way of electronic file transfers.

The CBSA works with ECCC wildlife enforcement and DFO officers on criminal investigations with a border nexus, such as smuggling activities.

The CBSA is also a member of the recently formed interdepartmental fish and seafood traceability task force, led by the DFO, which addresses, in part, illegal, unregulated and unreported fisheries.

Additionally, the DFO is currently developing regulations to impose the requirement of a licence to allow the export of elvers. This will provide the CBSA with enhanced authorities to intercept eels at the border.

We will continue to work with the DFO as it develops these regulations, and we will make sure that our border officers are trained and prepared to stop and seize illegal elver exports once these regulations come into force. The CBSA regularly updates directions to frontline officers to manage the handling, interdiction or release of high-risk goods.

As a final point, the CBSA is continuously working to improve not only our relationships with our partners, but also our collective intelligence and enforcement capabilities, our operations, our lessons learned and our successes.

That concludes my opening remarks. I'm happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to Sue Black for an opening statement of five minutes or less, please.

[Chief Superintendent Sue Black, Criminal Operations Officer, H Division, Core Criminal Operations, Nova Scotia, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to speak to plans and strategies towards preventing incidents of violence subsequent to the cancellation of the 2024 elver fishing season.

My name is Chief Superintendent Sue Black, and I am the criminal operations officer for the Nova Scotia RCMP or what we refer to as H division. The criminal operations officer is responsible for uniform and plainclothes investigative personnel with a mandate of core provincial policing services. I have been with the RCMP for 35 years in a number of roles, including core policing and, under the federal policing umbrella, border integrity, war crimes and international policing.

I am joined today by Chief Superintendent Darren Campbell, who is the criminal operations officer—my counterpart—for the RCMP in New Brunswick, also known as the J division.

The RCMP takes its primary role of upholding public safety very seriously.

The RCMP is mandated with protecting the public and enforcing applicable laws, including the Criminal Code, independently of political direction or influence. The RCMP will continue to take steps to ensure that those who unlawfully interfere with or threaten the safety of any person or property will be held accountable in accordance with the laws of Canada.

The RCMP's approach is impartial, respectful and balanced. It engages proactively with the community and stakeholders and develops communication and mitigation strategies aimed at preventing conflict. Our continued goal is to maintain the peace and facilitate peaceful resolutions to public order events.

The RCMP's role within the context of elver fishing, where it is the police of jurisdiction, is to respond to any Criminal Code infractions arising from conflict between parties involved in related disputes, to take proactive steps to reduce the risk of public safety incidents and to seek peaceful outcomes in the event of public order events.

RCMP division liaison team—or DLT—resources engage with all fishery stakeholders to facilitate conversations and understanding between parties with a goal of peaceful outcomes. The DLT has a long-standing and positive relationship with key stakeholders, including in the industry. This team is positioned to participate in dialogue to minimize risks to all persons and assist the RCMP in ensuring public safety.

The Nova Scotia RCMP has a well-established plan and command structure that covers operational, tactical and strategic-level responses for planned and unplanned major incidents.

Should civil unrest occur, uniformed personnel can be supplemented by additional strategic tactical operations resources from surrounding jurisdictions. Operational contingency plans are in place to respond if required. Should an event materialize outside of the RCMP’s jurisdiction, the RCMP is prepared to support and bolster the lead agency’s law enforcement posture and activities.

In the event of civil unrest, such as a public order event, the emergency coordination centre, led by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, or DFO, and supported by the Nova Scotia RCMP and the Canadian Coast Guard, will ensure a unified approach that maximizes the Government of Canada’s response. The Nova Scotia RCMP continues to support DFO through participation in emergency coordination centre activities.

The RCMP is committed to reconciliation and renewed, enhanced relationships with indigenous communities based on the recognition of rights, respect, co-operation and partnership. As such, any possible actions taken by the RCMP will be in the spirit of the culturally respectful efforts made to date to build meaningful, trustworthy and lasting relationships with indigenous communities and their peoples.

All of our work continues to include co-operation and partnership with the communities we serve.

Ultimately, while efforts to find a peaceful, long-term resolution rooted in the recognition of legitimate indigenous treaty rights continue, the RCMP will remain focused on upholding public safety, maintaining peaceful conditions for all involved and thoroughly investigating Criminal Code offences.

Thank you, Chair, for inviting me to appear before you today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll go to our rounds of questions.

We'll start with Mr. Perkins for six minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming.

I'd like to begin with the CBSA, if I could. I'll name the organizations and you guys can choose who's most appropriate to answer. It'll make it easier and I won't destroy your names, either.

CBSA, are you aware of a company in Toronto owned by Zheng Chao and Mark Mao, which exported somewhere in the neighbourhood of 100 tonnes of elvers out of the Toronto airport last year?

[Dominic Mallette]

I personally am not aware of that company, to be honest. I would question the quantities exported, but I can't do that at this time, so—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Well, it was verified—those approximate numbers were verified—in the Chronicle Herald a couple of weeks ago. They got the export numbers from Hong Kong. They were going through Hong Kong. They were confirmed.

My follow-up question is for the CFIA. A number of those exports had CFIA certification tags on them, going through Hong Kong. They go through Hong Kong, go through Korea and then move to China.

You testified, I think, that you don't have any record of that. I find it hard to believe that when that kind of volume of live seafood was going through on plane manifests, out of a terminal in Toronto, you wouldn't know that.

[Dr. Parthi Muthukumarasamy]

As I mentioned in the opening remarks, Hong Kong does not require export certification for export to Hong Kong from Canada, unless the product will be re-exported to China. We have not issued any export certification to Hong Kong, or to China, since—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

One, are you aware that all those exports are going to China? That's where the aquaculture is to grow them. Two, are you aware that in Hong Kong they're forging CFIA documents for the export to China?

[Dr. Parthi Muthukumarasamy]

When we are aware of forged certificates, we take action. We have a mechanism in place for enforcement and investigation activities. We were not notified in Hong Kong or by Hong Kong authorities of any forged certificates that have been used. Unfortunately, we don't have jurisdiction in Hong Kong. It's for the Hong Kong authorities to investigate.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

If you don't have jurisdiction there, how do you know they're not forging?

[Dr. Parthi Muthukumarasamy]

We are not aware of any forged certificates being used.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

To the CBSA, are you aware that large amounts of illegal elver exports go out in live lobster crates to China?

[Dominic Mallette]

Yes, I am fully aware.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Do you inspect all lobster crates of live lobster going out of Halifax or any other border in Canada?

[Dominic Mallette]

The short answer to that, Mr. Chair, is no. The CBSA does not inspect 100% of lobster shipments going out, either at Halifax or at Toronto. Doing that would likely lead to significant complications in the entire lobster industry.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

What percentage do you do?

[Dominic Mallette]

I could not give you a percentage, to be honest. We do random examinations, in fact.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Could you tell us the percentage in a written statement to the committee, please?

[Dominic Mallette]

I could come back and give you a percentage, perhaps.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

To the RCMP, you're the Nova Scotia provincial police force. Is that correct?

[C/Supt Sue Black]

Yes, we are the provincial police in Nova Scotia.