Fisheries Committee on March 21st, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Bragdon.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think we can move to a vote quite quickly on this, if it's needed or required.

Let's go to the vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll get that letter off to the minister and see what kind of response we get.

Now, Mr. Arnold, your time has expired.

Can we check to see if that's the 30-minute bells?

Let's finish at 5:30, if everyone is in agreement

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Kelloway, you're up for five minutes or less, please.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to direct my questions to Ms. Gibbons or Mr. Wentzell.

Just to go back to elvers for a second, I want to go back specifically to the research and the discussions that have happened with the Maine representatives on how they changed—I wouldn't say perfected—how they regulate the elver fishery and how they enforce the elver fishery. I guess my question is, what are the top three or four best practices that we have learned from our discussions with the Maine counterparts, and how might they fit into the new regulatory framework that we're proposing with the hopes for next year's fishery?

[Annette Gibbons]

Maybe I can start, and then ask Doug to complement.

As a general principle, Maine's regime requires a licence to posses elvers all along the supply chain. It's that stem-to-stern kind of approach that ensures that there's an ability to control it in a very granular way.

Maine has some particular features that are really detailed. I visited Maine with the minister and Doug a couple of weeks ago. Every transaction has to be recorded as a debit or a credit as elvers pass from one person in the supply chain to another. They require that to happen, so there is that record, but there is also a record of the payment, and the payment has to be by cheque. That is an additional requirement that they have, to really ensure there's evidence. There's no cash allowed in elver sales in Maine.

Another thing they did to try to tighten the controls was to require that sales be at an establishment, a place of business that is registered. You cannot sell elver out of the back of a truck or at a wharf—it's not a wharf; it's rivers. Nonetheless, you can't do it on a river bank. Again, that is a very tight requirement.

Also, when the elvers are leaving the state of Maine, there is an export event that takes place, and that is a regulated, overseen activity. You have to apply for a permit to export elvers, and there will be an event for the export that is very tightly controlled.

There are a number of things along the supply chain, and they have, of course, evolved with time.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you for that.

I want to look to today. With the season closed, for those watching back home or across Canada, or across the street for that matter, I want to get a sense of the enforcement, the actual numbers. That's number one, if we can highlight what's happened in the last two weeks.

Also.... I don't know if this is appropriate or not—you can tell me whether it is or it isn't—but many of the comments we've had around this table with different stakeholders government-wise, for example CBSA, really highlighted that we need to tighten our game in terms of the supply chain. Obviously, that's why we're looking for new regulations, but I want to get a sense of whether we are doing any work focusing on the transport of elvers, for example, to airports and ports themselves.

Is there any activity happening that you can share, either in part or in whole, to give us some indication of what's happening now? It is being transported, and I know that's not simply a DFO prerogative, but I wonder if you could provide any details on that.

[Annette Gibbons]

I'll ask Doug to give the numbers for this year, but I will say one thing. We have seized more vehicles this year than we did all of last year, and the season is just at its start. That's one thing I would note.

We absolutely are doing surveillance at the point of export and along the supply chain that is part of our.... We have the rivers, as well as the sales process from one buyer to another, and then at the point of export, but Doug can provide more.

[Doug Wentzell, Regional Director General, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you for the question.

Broadly speaking, we've dedicated more resources again this year to the elver fishery, including bringing in a number of fishery officers from other regions across Canada. Over the last two weeks, we have arrested at total of 34 individuals, as well as seizing a number of different assets and countless pieces of fishing gear, as the deputy minister has alluded to.

We don't just work riverside. Obviously, we want to make sure our frontline efforts are the priority, but we do work at major ports of exit and at airports, including an operation last night at one of the key airports. That work will continue to augment the work that's on the ground riverside.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That's very encouraging. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Gibbons, I would like to make one last attempt and convey all the hope felt by fishers. When I talk about fishers, I am referring to master owners, deckhands, workers in the processing plants and plant owners. I want to convey all the hope those people are placing on collaboration between the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Department of Citizenship and Immigration to apply pressure in order for the foreign workers to arrive in time.

In the present circumstances, with the shrimp fishery experiencing a drastic decline in stocks that jeopardizes the very existence of some economies in the Quebec fishery sector, I am trying again. Does an emergency unit seem to you to be an option that could quickly resolve the issue of foreign workers? That is the most immediately urgent thing at this time. Second, could that emergency unit, that crisis unit, quickly look into putting support in place?

Of course, some of those people have a little cushion, some savings, but some of them are really up against it. The boats will not get sold and a lot of people are going to go bankrupt. Can this be avoided? Can there also be assurance that the know-how will still be available when fishing resumes, when solutions are found for these fishers? This is all fundamental. In these circumstances, could a crisis unit be put in place to deal with the various pressing problems in the Quebec fisheries, but also in the Maritimes, in the short and medium terms?

[Annette Gibbons]

Regarding temporary foreign workers, we are in constant touch with the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, with the plants in every province, and with the companies that serve the plants, which coordinate all the applications. We are in touch with all these people to make sure that applications are processed efficiently.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Are you able to tell us that it is going to happen, that they are going to be there in the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens. You've gone over time.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Already?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron to finish off, for two and a half minutes or less.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you again, Ms. Gibbons, for being here.

My question is around the First Nations Fisheries Council. As I'm sure you're aware, the first nations caucus is, in effect, a key participant in the Pacific Salmon Treaty process. As you know, the first nations caucus is vital to Canadians and indigenous people participating in this process. They are a key part of this process.

Unfortunately, something I brought to the minister's attention in 2023 was that the First Nations Fisheries Council was reaching out with concerns that, despite the immense role they take on in this process, the funding they receive is minimal. They don't have the funding to truly participate and make sure they are speaking with members of the first nations to bring forward the information and have the meetings required for them to ensure that they're all on the same page in order to participate fully in the process.

I did write a letter to the minister a year ago, asking for this funding to be enhanced. The First Nations Fisheries Council is still reaching out with concerns around the funding being allocated.

I'm wondering if you could speak to this and share the steps forward to ensure that this participation can be done in a fulsome manner.

[Annette Gibbons]

I'm happy to take that away and look at it.

I would say that, as a general principle, under our broad Pacific salmon strategy initiative, which is close to $700 million over five years, there are a lot of different initiatives that engage B.C. first nations in salmon restoration and in discussions around the status of stocks and things like the BC Treaty Commission. There are various initiatives that would provide funding for engagement of first nations. I think that's something that's important to consider in this context.

We can come back with more specifics in response to the correspondence you raised.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron. Your time is up. The two and a half minutes aren't long going.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Chair, in the last two minutes that are left—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I have something to say, so I'm going to speak first. We'll see if we have any time left after that.

I'm going to say thank you again to the officials for being here today, sharing their knowledge with the committee and answering various questions. I want to say thank you to the clerk, the analysts, the interpreters and, of course, our electronics people, who make this all a success each and every day that we have a meeting. Again, I want to say a big thank you to everyone.

We have about 30 seconds left, Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'll be quick, Mr. Chair.

I want to move the motion that was put on notice on March 15:

That, given that the carbon tax is hurting fishermen—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, the meeting is over.