Evidence of meeting #106 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Steve Gotch  Senior Director, Operations, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Wes Shoemaker  Executive Head, Pacific Salmon Strategy Initiative, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Bryce Bekar  President, Yukon Fish and Game Association
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Geneviève Dubois-Richard

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 106 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Before we proceed, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. Those participating by video conference can click on the microphone icon to activate their mic. Please mute your microphone when you are not speaking.

For interpretation, for those on Zoom, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel, but we don't have any witnesses in the room.

Please address all comments through the chair.

I have a quick reminder. Before we proceed, I simply want to remind members to be very careful when handling the earpieces, especially when your microphone or your neighbour's microphone is turned on. An earpiece placed too close to a microphone is one of the most common causes of sound feedback, which is extremely harmful to the interpreters and causes serious injury.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on June 16, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of the population sustainability of Yukon salmon stocks.

On our first panel today, we welcome, from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, Steve Gotch, senior director, operations, Pacific region; and Wes Shoemaker, executive head, Pacific salmon strategy initiative.

Thank you both for taking the time to appear today. You will have five minutes or less for your opening statement.

Mr. Gotch, you have the floor for five minutes or less, please.

3:35 p.m.

Steve Gotch Senior Director, Operations, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and committee members. As introduced, my name is Steve Gotch. I am the Pacific region senior director of operations with Fisheries and Oceans Canada. I am accompanied here today by my colleague Mr. Wes Shoemaker, head of the Pacific salmon strategy transformation initiative.

We appreciate the opportunity to appear before this committee on behalf of the department this afternoon. Following my opening remarks, we look forward to answering any questions regarding Pacific salmon stocks in the Yukon and associated departmental policies, strategies, programs and services.

As committee members likely recognize, the presence of Pacific salmon stocks in the Yukon has been integral to the environment and sustainment of people for thousands of years. Many populations of Pacific salmon in Yukon represent the northernmost range for their species. Unlike other Pacific salmon stocks, which inhabit more southern and temperate regions of western North America, over millennia salmon stocks in the Yukon have adapted to survive in often harsh subarctic conditions. As a result, many of these stocks represent the longest-lived and largest body size of their species, in many cases enabling them to migrate several thousand kilometres inland from the ocean to access spawning areas in freshwater habitats.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada is responsible for monitoring the abundance of anadromous stocks of salmon in the Yukon and works closely with self-governing Yukon first nations to coordinate the administration of first nation subsistence, recreational and commercial fisheries for Pacific salmon. Given the reality that all of the watershed inhabited by Pacific salmon in the Yukon, including the Yukon, Porcupine and Alsek watersheds, are situated, or the lower portions are situated, in the United States, Fisheries and Oceans Canada engages directly with state and federal fishery management agencies in Alaska to coordinate the assessment and management of these stocks. This engagement also involves working together to implement formal processes and requirements established within the international U.S.-Canada Pacific salmon treaty.

Over the most recent 25-year period, Pacific salmon stocks have exhibited significant change in both abundance and condition across British Columbia and Yukon. In the case of the Alsek River watershed in southwestern Yukon, certain seasons have experienced some of the highest returning abundance of adult sockeye and coho salmon to Canada, while in the Yukon River watershed, chinook and chum salmon stocks continue to decline to levels not recorded in living memory.

For Yukon River chinook salmon, this decline has been particularly profound, with the recent annual abundance representing only 10% of what was typically observed prior to 1995. This sustained decline over multiple life cycles of this species has not only resulted in profound effects on the Yukon River ecosystem; it has also created significant hardship for the people who rely on Pacific salmon as a consistent source of food, for ceremony and as an integral part of culture.

In response to the declines observed, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, in collaboration with Yukon first nation governments and U.S. state and federal agencies, has undertaken numerous initiatives to improve our understanding of the abundance and health of Pacific salmon stocks in Yukon. These monitoring and research efforts, in parallel with restriction and ultimately closure of Canadian fisheries, are intended to conserve and protect adult salmon returning to their spawning grounds. Concurrently, measures undertaken to preserve and protect Pacific salmon habitats from anthropogenic development serve to ensure that the ecological integrity of areas that Pacific salmon rely on the most remain intact.

The continued decline of Yukon River chinook salmon has recently led to collaborative efforts undertaken by Fisheries and Oceans Canada and self-governing first nations to explore measures of last resort, in the most extreme examples faced with only a handful of adult salmon returning to spawning areas [Technical difficulty—Editor].

Mr. Chair, I apologize. I have a bit of a connection issue.

On April 1 of this year, following months of intensive negotiations, Fisheries and Oceans Canada reached a historical agreement with the State of Alaska that commits the governments to implement measures to protect and recover Canadian-origin salmon stocks. The agreement involves the immediate suspension of all fisheries that target Canadian-origin chinook salmon stocks in the Yukon; confirms the parties' intent to support scientific, technical and traditional knowledge research into the causes for decline; and commits the parties to development of an international stock rebuilding plan through the Yukon River Panel.

This agreement will remain in effect for a seven-year period, which is representative of one life cycle of Canadian-origin Yukon River salmon. At its foundation, it reflects the necessary actions identified by Yukon first nations people who have experienced first-hand the effects of the decline of Yukon River chinook salmon for over two decades.

We acknowledge and thank the committee for undertaking this study. We look forward to responding to any questions you may have regarding Pacific salmon stocks in Yukon.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Shoemaker for five minutes or less, please.

3:40 p.m.

Wes Shoemaker Executive Head, Pacific Salmon Strategy Initiative, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I do not have any opening remarks.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

That's not a problem. I just heard that from the clerk.

We'll go right to our rounds of questioning.

We'll go to Mr. Arnold for six minutes or less, please.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the department officials for being here today for this.

I'm not sure which one of you is best placed to answer this question.

What measures have been taken to protect the salmon from the Yukon River and Alsek River in the marine environment? We understand that there's been a moratorium on the non-tidal salmon in the river, but what measures have been taken by DFO in the marine environment?

3:40 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Steve Gotch

Mr. Chair, the marine areas that are primarily inhabited by Canadian-origin Yukon River salmon stocks are in fact U.S. exclusive economic zone waters. The vast majority of marine habitats inhabited by Yukon River salmon, and arguably Alsek River salmon stocks as well, are directly regulated and controlled by the State of Alaska or U.S. federal agencies.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

I think we understand that.

What measures has DFO taken to protect those stocks in the marine environment? What negotiations have taken place with the U.S.?

3:40 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Steve Gotch

I see.

Mr. Chair, one of the specific measures that Fisheries and Oceans Canada has been involved in is undertaking negotiations with state and federal agencies around minimizing and, where possible, avoiding bycatch of Canadian-origin salmon stocks in U.S. groundfish fisheries in the north Pacific, as well as the Bering Sea and Aleutian Islands fishery areas.

As for Pacific salmon directed fisheries in the marine environment, state or federal agencies do not currently permit directed harvest of chinook salmon in offshore—we'll call it—marine high seas areas.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

How much biomass of chinook salmon would be caught as bycatch? Even though they're not permitted, there must be bycatch. How much is caught?

3:40 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Steve Gotch

Mr. Chair, on an annual basis, the percentage of total abundance, in particular of Canadian-origin Yukon River chinook salmon, that are caught in biomass in U.S. marine fisheries is between approximately 1% and 3%. That is representative, in a rough number, of approximately 500 to 750 individual salmon.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

How much of a difference would those 500 to 750 fish make on the spawning grounds? How many eggs would those fish produce per fish?

3:40 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Steve Gotch

Currently, the chinook salmon stocks in the Yukon are representative of approximately 50% males and 50% females, roughly speaking, on an average basis. Out of 500 fish, approximately 250 of those fish are females. What we do know from the most recent spawner-recruit analysis is that we're seeing approximately one or less than one adult fish returning as spawners. An additional 250 female fish on the spawning grounds would represent approximately 250 returning adults.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Can you tell the committee what results have been achieved on the ground through the resources of the Pacific salmon strategy initiative?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Steve Gotch

There have been several investments over the past three years in the areas of monitoring, research and restoration, focusing on Canadian-origin salmon stocks in the Yukon River watershed. A better part of a million dollars has been directed specifically towards first nation government organizations that have undertaken enhanced monitoring by observing the number of adult fish returning to spawning grounds and undertaking some habitat assessment studies to identify potential areas for restoration works in the near future. Most prominently, investments have been made through partnerships with one particular first nation that is exploring the development of a stewardship and restoration centre in the upper Yukon River watershed.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you.

I'll turn my questioning now to Mr. Shoemaker.

I believe you've been around. You've certainly appeared at this committee previously.

Members of this committee take seriously our work and the hearing from and questioning of department officials, and especially appreciate that you're here. We also honour the time all witnesses take out of their lives to provide testimony as we develop and present comprehensive reports to government out of this committee based on the evidence we hear from people like you and the other witnesses. Yet time and again the recommendations in those reports are given little more than lip service by the fisheries minister and the department, recommendations that could make lives better for harvesters, recommendations that would rebuild and protect the biodiversity of Canada's marine environment.

Can you explain to the committee members why we should believe this minister or her department will respond any differently to any recommendations coming out of this study on Pacific salmon?

3:45 p.m.

Executive Head, Pacific Salmon Strategy Initiative, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Wes Shoemaker

What I can say is that with the number of activities and investments that are undertaken towards addressing not only the sustainability of Yukon salmon stocks but also Pacific salmon stocks more generally, and given the significant investment and commitment towards the Pacific salmon strategy initiative, I am very, very optimistic that our efforts and the investments thereof and/or the involvement of our other partners and recommendations that come from either different reports or our partners are going to make a difference with regard to the conservation and protection of both Yukon and Pacific salmon.

Again, I—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

If I could interject here—

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you. You've gone a little over time, Mr. Arnold.

We'll now go to Mr. Hanley for six minutes or less, please.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT

Thank you very much to both of you for appearing today and contributing to this really important study. It's obviously an incredibly important study to me as the member of Parliament for Yukon, but also it's a very important study, I would say, for the entire continent. We're talking about an ecosystem that is at risk and a species that is at risk.

I want to start by following up on a couple of Mr. Arnold's questions.

Mr. Gotch, you talk about the scale of the bycatch. I hear a lot about bycatch being a significant contribution to the decline of the salmon. Can you talk about how confident you are in those numbers and the source of those numbers that you relate as amounting to 500 to 750 individual salmon?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Steve Gotch

Mr. Chair, I'll begin by responding that bycatch in the Bering Sea and Aleutian Islands commercial fisheries is identified through a highly regulated monitoring program that's administered through state and federal agencies in Alaska. The specific requirements of all vessels fishing groundfish, which are also described as pollock or cod in the Bering Sea, is that each vessel must have at least one independent observer who documents catch that's brought on board vessels that are actively participating in fishing activities. The non-target species are enumerated and identified by species, and genetic tissue samples are taken for further analysis to determine the stock of origin in the case of Pacific salmon.

With respect to our degree of confidence in the bycatch reporting in the Bering Sea and Aleutian Islands groundfish fisheries by the United States, I would classify it as extremely high on the basis of the rigour and the specific requirements of those monitoring programs. The analyses and the results presented on bycatch information are provided by U.S. state representatives from Alaska through the international Yukon River Panel process and are published as a component of an annual publication produced by the Yukon River Panel's joint technical committee.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT

Thank you very much for that.

I wonder whether you could elaborate briefly on other marine factors that may be contributing to the decline.

3:50 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Steve Gotch

Mr. Chair, as far as other factors beyond groundfish fisheries and bycatch in groundfish fisheries are concerned, as I mentioned previously, there are no directed fisheries for Pacific salmon in the Bering Sea beyond nearshore fisheries that occur, in the case of the Yukon River salmon stocks, at the mouth of the Yukon River; and they are documented and enumerated as part of what we'll call broader U.S. or Alaskan catch.

From our best available information currently, the largest and most prominent influencing factor on the survival and abundance of Canadian-origin Yukon River chinook salmon stocks has been changing marine conditions. Specifically, the conditions are earlier and later ice breakup on the Bering Sea and a reduced period of ice cover that affects water temperature as well as salinity.

Effectively, these changing conditions are creating an environment that is more conducive to supporting different types of species that serve as food for fish, in particular, salmon, but then also attract different species of predators.

To the best of our understanding, these primary shifts as far as chinook salmon survival and production go are related to food availability—so different types and frankly different qualities of food that are available for chinook salmon that are in the marine environment in the Bering Sea—and then also an indication of increased predation rates.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT

Thank you. That's very helpful.

I'm obviously pleased, as many are in the territory, and I believe in Alaska as well, to see the arrival of the seven-year moratorium. Obviously, there's a lot to unpack within that seven-year agreement.

Mr. Shoemaker, perhaps you could comment on the funding, additional to PSSI funding, that I believe is referred to within this agreement. Is there funding that will help to support the restoration activities that are described in the seven-year agreement?

3:50 p.m.

Senior Director, Operations, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Steve Gotch

Mr. Chair, I'll begin, and perhaps Mr. Shoemaker can add to my response.

I'll answer it twofold.

The seven-year agreement recently signed by Canada and the State of Alaska refers to two potential sources of funding. The first is U.S. funding leveraged through the State of Alaska, which is very relevant to Canada, because the intent of that funding is to be directed towards the conservation and rebuilding of Canadian-origin salmon stocks. Although it would occur through a U.S. appropriation and be made available, so to speak, in U.S. funds, the specific intention and direction of those funds would be for Canadian stocks and for projects, frankly speaking, in the Canadian portion of the Yukon River watershed.

As far as additional efforts being undertaken by Canada to seek increased federal funding or secure new funding to assist with Yukon River habitat and stock restoration activities are concerned, those efforts are currently under way. We will hopefully be reporting in the near future on progress achieved in that regard, but at this point in time, as far as perhaps budget 2024 announcements go, there is no specific funding earmarked beyond PSSI, the Pacific salmon strategy initiative, funds for this particular initiative.

Mr. Shoemaker.