Fisheries Committee on Nov. 21st, 2023

[Neil Davis]

I think we always have choices to make about where we direct resources, but we do have an effective complement of assets that we can deploy to provide coverage across the region. We make choices about how and when to deploy those based on our understanding of where there may be issues or trends that need addressing. There is some prioritization work that happens within the department, and it's reflective of our understanding of areas or particular fisheries that need attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens, for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to ask two questions.

First, I'd like Mr. Richard to explain to us why mackerel fishers in Quebec have to report their catches, but those elsewhere in Canada do not.

According to the table we got that lists charges since 2015, there have been about 11,000 convictions, both guilty verdicts and deemed convictions. I'd like to know if these penalties are mainly financial and, if so, how much money has been collected since 2015.

[Adam Burns]

We can provide a written answer to that question.

Regarding mackerel catch reporting, I think Mr. Wentzell can answer your question better than I can.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Go ahead, Mr. Wentzell.

[Doug Wentzell]

To my knowledge, all catches have to be reported.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Is that for Quebec and the rest of Canada, or just for Quebec?

[Adam Burns]

As far as I know, when the fishery is open, fishers are required to report all mackerel catches as a condition of licence. We can check that and get back to you with an answer.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

In the interest of our fishers, I'd like a written response.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron, for two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

First and foremost, I want to acknowledge, and thank my colleague, MP Hardie, for his questions, specifically around indigenous treaty rights and some of the misinformation that we hear circulating. It's a really important topic, and I just wanted to loop back to that.

Perhaps this question can be for Mr. Burns. Specifically, can you expand a bit about how illegal, unreported...? Actually, how is DFO engaging with indigenous communities and organizations in relation to illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing?

[Adam Burns]

We have relationships with first nations from coast to coast. We work with each one of them in a manner that is appropriate for that nation. We work with them in terms of their vision for how they would want to be exercising their rights in the context of an orderly managed fishery. That work is really important in order to understand the vision they have for their rights, and to work with them to implement an approach that helps them achieve those objectives.

That's ongoing work. It's led by our regions. It makes sense for that work to be done at the local level. It's an ongoing piece of work by the department.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

I have another question for Mr. Burns. It is actually on one of the things my colleague Mr. Arnold was asking about.

I was reflecting on a previous study that we did on appropriate labelling of fishing products. One of the witnesses talked about the lack of access to technology for fishers to self-report and to monitor the fishing as it's occurring, the lack of consistency and availability of the technology and how it's reported. I'm wondering if you can expand on that a little bit, because I do feel it's an essential piece of this discussion and of understanding what's available for fishers to appropriately monitor and report so we can better utilize that information as it relates to illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing.

[Adam Burns]

Yes, the government recently made an investment to enhance the work the department is undertaking to implement our fisheries monitoring policy to achieve greater coherence across our fisheries. An important part of that is expansion of our electronic logbook program, which is currently largely voluntary. There are a few examples in Quebec of fisheries for which it is now a requirement, but over the next year or so we're looking to expand the available technology so that we can move to a system in which logbooks are entirely electronic so that we have real-time data coming from harvesters to better understand the state of play of a particular fishery and also to make it easier for them to provide us that information.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for the four minutes that are left.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Four minutes: I can't say my name in four minutes.

Thank you.

My first question is for Mr. Slaney.

Do you have enough resources to enforce the Fisheries Act?

[Lloyd Slaney]

Well, sir, the program has a national cadre of officers—close to 500 across the country—and in enforcing the act, of course, we utilize a lot—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm sorry to interrupt. We have limited time. Is it yes or no?

[Lloyd Slaney]

I believe so, sir. I think—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you. You said yes.

Tim Kerr, who's your local director in the Maritimes, before the elver fishery started this year, said he had adequate resources—as you just said—to enforce the fishery, a 45-day fishery.

The year before and the year before that, DFO was getting complaints from licence-holders about illegal poaching, and almost nothing was done about it. They were told by C and P that there was nothing they could do about the poaching going on in the rivers of Nova Scotia.

In the lead-up to this, which was led by a lot of illegal poaching in the lobster fishery in the last few years, since 2020, DFO was warned about this. Then, of course, what we saw was that you didn't have adequate resources, obviously, contrary to what you said, to actually enforce the law. Why did C and P not bring in the RCMP to help enforce the law?

[Lloyd Slaney]

Well, sir, I'm not exactly sure about the incident you're referring to, but we do work with local law enforcement officials when there's—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

In the 18 days of legal fishery and the one month of illegal fishery that happened in the elver fishery in Nova Scotia, not once, when our office called the RCMP, did they say they had been called by DFO for RCMP to support them. Why did you not call the RCMP as the backup to deal with the poaching by the one thousand illegal poachers that were there?

[Adam Burns]

I might suggest, Mr. Chair, that Mr. Wentzell respond to the question from a management perspective.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Sure.

[Doug Wentzell]

Thanks.

A quick response to the question, Mr. Chair, is that we did engage colleagues—including the RCMP—on a number of different incidents involving the elver fishery. Officers made over 100 arrests last year alone, and we have about 29, I believe—