Fisheries Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 91 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Before we proceed, I simply want to remind members to be very careful when handling the earpieces, especially when your microphone or your neighbour's microphone is turned on. Earpieces placed too close to a microphone are one of the most common causes of sound feedback, which is extremely harmful to the interpreters and causes serious injury.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we will study the subject matter of supplementary estimates (B), 2023-24: votes 1b, 5b and 10b under the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

I would like to welcome our first panel of witnesses. Representing the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, we have with us Annette Gibbons, deputy minister; Richard Goodyear, assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer; and Adam Burns, assistant deputy minister, programs sector. We also have Mr. Chris Henderson, deputy commissioner of operations for the Canadian Coast Guard.

Thank you for taking the time to appear today.

Ms. Gibbons, you have up to five minutes for your opening statement, please.

[Annette Gibbons, Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start by recognizing that we are gathered on the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people. We're happy to have the opportunity to do so.

My colleagues have already been introduced, so I will not do it again.

After my speech, we will be pleased to answer all your questions about our department's section of the supplementary estimates (B) for 2023-24.

Mr. Chair, Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard are seeking $356.4 million through the supplementary estimates (B), 2023-24. This consists of $340.5 million in voted appropriations, as well as $15.9 million in statutory appropriations. Taken together, this represents an 8% increase to our planned budget spending this fiscal year.

The $340.5-million increase in voted authorities can be mainly attributed to the following areas: $133.3 million “to advance reconciliation on Indigenous rights and fisheries issues”; $49.4 million “to continue [implementing] the Fish and Fish Habitat Protection Program provisions of the Fisheries Act”; $42.1 million for the Canadian Coast Guard's multi-purpose vessel project; and $24.7 million “to continue...to protect species at risk”.

A further $91 million is being requested for 20 additional items with lower funding requirements, as well as technical adjustments such as transfers to and from other government departments.

In terms of the $15.9 million in statutory appropriations, this amount is required for updated compensation and benefit forecasts for our employees.

The funding being requested through the supplementary estimates (B), 2023-24, will help Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard fulfill our mission while continuing to deliver the many essential services that we deliver for Canadians.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to take this opportunity to update you on the spending reductions identified across our department.

As you know, when budget 2023-24 was tabled last April, it included plans to reduce federal government spending. At the time, it was expected that the savings generated by efforts to refocus government spending would be $15.4 billion over five years and then $4.5 billion annually thereafter.

On November 9, the President of the Treasury Board tabled the 2023-24 supplementary estimates (B) in the House of Commons. The estimates included the first update on how the Government of Canada is reducing its planned spending. More specifically, it detailed how $500 million in funding related to travel expenses, consulting services and professional services was refocused and withdrawn from the 2023-24 budgets of 68 departments.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard contributed to this exercise, and I can report that more than $25.7 million in spending has been frozen across our department.

This is only the first tranche of a multi-year effort to reduce government spending, and we're already looking to the future to determine where additional savings can be found across our department over subsequent years. Ultimately, this work will help refocus our spending, so it's going to the priorities that matter most to Canadians.

[A voice]

We're getting French translation on the English channel.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Geneviève Dubois-Richard]

We're getting the French translation on the English channel.

Thank you. It's good now.

[Annette Gibbons]

Ultimately, this work will help refocus our spending so it's going to the priorities that matter most to Canadians. In the meantime, Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard remain committed to the efficient and prudent spending of taxpayer dollars and to being accountable and transparent in our ongoing reporting to Canadians and parliamentarians.

Before closing I want to briefly mention the Government of Canada's recent fall economic statement and how it impacts our department. I want to specifically highlight how four additional weeks of employment insurance regular benefits will be available to eligible seasonal workers. Claims established between September 2023 and September 2024 will be eligible for this coverage, which will cost approximately $69.8 million over three years, and fishery workers are the primary beneficiaries of the EI seasonal regime.

Mr. Chair, thank you for this opportunity to present the department's supplementary estimates (B). My colleagues and I are happy to answer any questions you have related to this work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to our first round of questions, with Mr. Small for six minutes or less, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Gibbons, the minister's mandate letter states, and I quote, that she's to work to “make new investments and develop a conservation strategy to restore and rebuild wild Atlantic salmon”. Last year salmon anglers asked for an eight-week extension to the river guardian program. The minister provided a four-week extension, basically, to supply half the guardians. Basically, the minister provided one-quarter of what was asked for.

You just stated that you had an 8% increase in your budget, and DFO's budget has increased since 2015 by close to $5 billion. Why was, basically, a $2-million ask to provide protection for Atlantic salmon, in line with what was in the minister's mandate letter, not provided in Newfoundland and Labrador?

[Annette Gibbons]

The funding that we receive as we go through our approvals at Treasury Board is all dedicated to particular activities. We have some flex in our budgets, but we have a certain amount for each activity, and that's the amount we have.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

It has been reported that guardians were observing illegal nets, and when they came to the end of their shift they were told to go home because there was no budget for overtime. If the budget's not going to provide for these C and P workers, these individuals, to carry out their duties and have successful outcomes, what's the point of it all?

[Annette Gibbons]

We have all of our activities planned out over a year, and as we see the need to make changes within a year, we'll make changes. At any given point in time, each program activity has its budget, and they work within the budget they have. That's how the money gets allocated to us.

As I said, we have some flexibility, but we can't take money from a program that's meeting another commitment or another mandate of the department to put it in another area. We have to progress on all of the different activities we're mandated to do.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

You're telling me that, with an 8% increase in your budget, you couldn't find $2 million to protect these precious Atlantic salmon stocks in Newfoundland and Labrador?

[Annette Gibbons]

Mr. Chair, there are lots of different priorities that we try to meet with the resources we have. The increase would have been for specific activities. As I said, we have to keep moving the money on the things we're allocated to do to with it.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Wouldn't you think that the money would be spent in line with what's laid out in a mandate letter?

[Annette Gibbons]

Well, there are lots of different things that have funding requirements associated with them in the mandate letter, as well as in the standing mandate of the department—all of the ongoing things that are not new commitments. We have to make sure we have the budget to do those things, as well as the things that are new commitments.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Last week, here in committee, it was laid out that product-of-Canada mackerel produced in 2023 are on the market. Did DFO see that testimony?

[Annette Gibbons]

I did not see that testimony. I'm sure that there are people in my department who did.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Fisheries and Oceans Canada is requesting over $10 million to renew the marine spacial planning program, as outlined in budget 2023. How much of that money is being spent to identify wind energy sites?

[Annette Gibbons]

I don't think that funding is.... It's about different regions. Some of those regions are places that would be good sites for wind energy and that are being considered for that, but it is about planning over the region for all of the activities in a region. The objective there is to have a better understanding of where the very sensitive ecosystem areas are and where the fishing grounds are, and to really understand well where there is scope for different types of activities.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

How much of that money is being directed to prevent conflict between the fishing industry and wind energy developers?

[Annette Gibbons]

Certainly, the discussions between those different groups of stakeholders would be captured in the funding we use. We use part of that money for engagement with all of the different stakeholders who are using a given marine area.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

With this program, are you more concerned with protecting the livelihoods of fishers or with justifying their displacement from their traditional fishing grounds in favour of renewable energy projects?

[Annette Gibbons]

We're trying to find a way forward that uses the ocean in a sustainable way for all the people who are interested in the use of the ocean in a particular area.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Have you committed any of that $10 million to groups like the FFAW, to enable them to represent their stakeholders in these discussions?

[Annette Gibbons]

I'm not sure if there is money that has flowed in that way. I think the money is to set up planning processes, but whether or not it has gone to individual organizations like that for them to participate in the process, I'm not sure. We can come back with an answer on that.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Ms. Gibbons.