Do you know how far away that is?
Evidence of meeting #18 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #18 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
I'd be happy, through the clerk, to provide that. There are different sectors. There's a pesticide sector. There's one around transportation, consumer chemicals and workplace chemicals. But I'd be happy to provide that through the clerk.
We do, as a country, have a plan for labelling. Again, not trying to solve everything with this one, we are already committed, and there is international commitment to do that. That would simplify things for industry as well.
With respect to simply saying something is a carcinogen, people talk about IARC as a good example. Sand is on that list. Coffee is on that list. Alcohol is on that list.
I go back to what I said earlier. With the technology today, if you ask me to look for it, we can find it. The risk comes from whether or not it comes out of the consumer product. Are humans exposed to it, and at what level, along with all of the exposures they might have, such that this creates an unacceptable risk? That's the approach we are taking with this.
To simply say, “Well, it's on a list and shouldn't belong in a product”, quite frankly, we'll find it at the nanoparticle level there anyway, in all probability, given the amount that is in the globe already. At a practical level, it's the amount that's there and the potential for that to come out of this product that creates the risk of harm.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
To honour the time, I'm sorry to have to interrupt you.
We now have Ms. Wasylycia-Leis.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Well, I'm glad I could follow up this question. I've tried to keep calm through this meeting, but I'm about to go on a rant.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Oh, it will be a polite rant.
You've been telling us about this GHS for years. We put forward labelling motions in Parliament eight years ago, and you said GHS was coming, just wait. Now here we are, asking for labelling in a bill so that parents can know what toys are safe or not, and you're telling us to wait for GHS.
I don't think that will wash with Canadians. I think we can do better than that. I want to know why, as a bare minimum, you don't allow for labelling in this bill. Surely that's the most basic step that can be taken for Canadians.
Let's go back to lead. You talked about this chemical management system. Well, I now learn that lead is not on that list. So what are you doing, through this bill, that tells parents that a product with lead is off the market, it's not going to be sold, it's banned, it's prohibited?
You talked about lead in jewellery. That's it. But lead in key chains is okay. Lead in girls' watches is okay, maybe. I don't know. You've been very irresponsible on this front. You have to be able to tell parents, either way, that a product is safe or not, based on lead levels, or give them the labelling.
Tell me what system is in place that will ban toys with lead that are beyond background levels, beyond the so-called levels you say are naturally in products. How can I as a parent know what is safe or not? You won't do anything through this bill, and you won't even allow for labelling. So how can I tell anybody they can feel safe and secure through this legislation? What's new about any of this? It's not even risk management.
4:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Thank you, Madam Chair.
With respect to labelling, with all respect, the question has been answered--
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Wait for GHS.
And how many years should we wait? We've waited eight now. How many more should we wait? Tell us, so we'll know, at least.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, can we let Mr. Glover answer the question, please? Thank you.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Well, it's relative to our discussion. If we want to propose amendments, we should know whether we're doing it because of substantive reasons or not. We should get the facts.
4:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
With all respect, and I appreciate the passion on the issue, we have committed to provide, through the clerk of the committee, the timelines with respect to our plans to move forward with the implementation of GHS.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Why not have it in both places? On the tobacco you say we can't, that we have to have this exclusion of tobacco because there's another act. We can't do this because it's under CEPA. We can't do this because it's under chemical management.
If we really care about consumer product safety, wouldn't we want all of these legislative pieces to be in sync and sending the same message? That is, that certain substances are harmful and Canadians should not be exposed to them. If government's not going to do it, then we should at least give the people the information so they can make the choices.
4:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Absolutely. That is why this bill is focused on the issue of active prevention with respect to standards that we would look to have for products, information for consumers. The general prohibition is such that if industry has not designed a product, or is using levels of lead or any substance that creates a harm, rather than going after things one substance at a time, we have an elegant solution here that says that if you have substances in your product at a level that is unacceptable, you're breaking the general prohibition--
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Okay, so how are you going to ban products other than jewellery in terms of lead? Give me some tangibles, then. Tell me what level kicks in for you to ban toys and any products that have lead in them? What level?
5 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
We have a range of regulations that specify what the acceptable levels are in terms of migratable amounts from paint and other things like that. The minister has also committed to come forward with an integrated strategy on lead and a number of regulations to respond to this particular issue.
But more fundamentally, the idea is not to go at things one substance at a time. With respect, as a bureaucrat, I think that would doom us to fail, because we can't keep up. Industry has a new product, a new technology, a new substance around the corner. The general prohibition allows us a more flexible response, rather than trying to keep up with this thing one substance at a time. Rather than placing the heavy burden and onus on us to do all of the science, the onus is on industry to prove the product is safe.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Thank you, Mr. Glover.
Mr. Brown.
And thank you, Mrs. Wasylycia-Leis.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
First, do you have any information on international examples of consumer product safety legislation? How does this proposed legislation compare with other countries' standards on consumer product safety?
5 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
I'm terribly sorry, could I ask the member to repeat that? I'll keep it short. I know I'm eating your time.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
Do you know of any legislation proposed in other developed countries with regard to consumer product safety?
5 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
The short answer is yes. We are taking a very close look at what other jurisdictions are doing.
In the absence of Bill C-6, our trading partners in the European Union and in the United States have a concept very similar to the general prohibition. Without Bill C-6, we do not. This is an example of where this will bring us up.
They have a range of powers for their inspectors and the ability to incent the right sort of behaviour through the implementation of penalties and fines. That is something that we do not have. They have product tracing requirements in their current legislations, or proposed legislations. In the absence of Bill C-6, we do not.
So quite frankly, when we look at what Bill C-6 is doing, it allows us to--