Evidence of meeting #27 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cigarettes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Thank you, Madam Chair, for the member's questions.
There are a number of manufacturers with different ingredients. But speaking in generalities, I will turn to my colleague Denis to help me out a little bit on this one. We're getting past my level of expertise.
But there are flavours, such as vanilla and licorice, added to these to deal with the blend itself.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
But they're not marketed to kids at all. Isn't the intent of this bill to restrict the appeal to children?
3:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
So I guess the question is, are vanilla and licorice flavours that appeal to children? The research we have shows that they are. Are they distinct flavours? Within that, is it branded as a vanilla flavour or a licorice flavour? No, they're American blended, and that has to do with the tobacco that goes into them and how they are made.
But the department would certainly not recommend to the committee that you say vanilla is an allowed flavour and licorice is an allowed flavour as it moves forward and that would be the way to deal with it. Or, as other American cigarette companies have done, they have reformulated their cigarettes for the Canadian marketplace. So there are examples of different brands sold in Canada versus Europe versus the United States that are adjusted according to those markets and the tastes of the people in those markets. So we already have a number of American cigarette companies that have reformulated their cigarettes for the Canadian marketplace and don't use those flavours and additives.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
When you say “the Canadian marketplace”, do you mean duty-free shops or other places?
3:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
We mean the entire Canadian marketplace.
3:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Including them.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Director, Office of Regulations and Compliance, Tobacco Control Program, Department of Health
Yes. If you sell a tobacco product in Canada, such as cigarettes, you have to comply with the Tobacco Act. Tobacco products such as the cigarettes we see sold in duty-free stores along the border, but on Canadian territory--and also sold elsewhere in Canada, just not there—must have health warnings, just like the other cigarette brands. So those so-called American blend cigarettes that are sold in Canada at duty-free outlets, or not, are already the same brands we'll see across the country. We cannot disclose proprietary information provided to us, but as Mr. Glover was pointing out, a number of them had to reformulate in order to have some market in Canada.
So the issue does not differ according to whether or not the cigarettes are being sold in a duty-free outlet or elsewhere. If you have a cigarette that is being sold, you have to comply with the health warning labelling requirements, and you will also have to comply with the new schedule. Technically, that seems to be feasible—at least to some manufacturers. We don't see those reformulated products disappearing form the marketplace, and just like other stores in Canada, duty-free outlets will still be able to sell them.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I want to go back to a comment my colleague made about contraband. Is contraband addressed in this bill, or is it outside the scope of the bill?
3:55 p.m.
Diane Labelle General Counsel, Legal Services Unit, Department of Health
Contraband is not only outside the scope of the amending bill, it's outside of the scope of the Tobacco Act. The Tobacco Act is meant to deal with the health aspects related to tobacco products. It does not have the tools necessary to deal with contraband.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
An issue was raised by witnesses that I think poses a very spurious argument. It is the suggestion that if we follow through with this bill and ban flavoured tobacco products and cigarillos, we'll just push it underground, leading to more contraband. I think we need officials to address that issue, if possible. It needs to be put to rest, because I don't think it has any legs to stand on. I don't have the expertise to address it, so I'll throw it back to you.
3:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll try to catch it and not drop it.
The department, in moving forward with this legislation, consulted with other federal departments involved in the tobacco control strategy. So they are aware of this bill, what it intends to do, and what impact it might have on contraband activities. They are confident that within the activities they currently perform or are contemplating, they support this bill and are ready to deal with it. Some of our colleagues in other departments were consulted on the development of this bill, the impacts of it, and our positions accordingly.
3:55 p.m.
General Counsel, Legal Services Unit, Department of Health
The member states of the Framework Convention on Tobacco Control are presently negotiating a protocol on this very issue of contraband, so it's an international concern. Member states are trying to come together to fight the contraband issue.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
I want to clarify that I'm not under the impression that these amendments deal with contraband or the Tobacco Act. We are concerned that prohibition has historically led to contraband, smuggling, and so on, and the wider the net we cast, the more products are vulnerable to being completely unregulated as contraband products. I was trying to identify whether regular cigarettes that are not marketed to kids and don't say “juicy pop flavour” or whatever on them are going to be caught in this net, as was the concern expressed to us by the duty-free interest groups.
I didn't hear a yes or no. I heard that some American manufacturers have been able to accommodate Canadian regulations and reformulate, but I don't know if that's 5% or 95%. I wonder about those that have not been able to do that or will not be able to continue to sell legal products to Canadians, due to the unintended consequences of this regulation capturing products it didn't intend to capture.
4 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
I will turn to my colleague to help me out, but first and foremost, the bill is intended to capture those types of flavours. They are in those products, so if those companies want to continue to do business in this country they will have to reformulate them. The bill is designed to capture flavours like vanilla and licorice. We are aware of their concerns, but as we have seen from the evidence of others, they have been able to reformulate. If we want to deal with the issue of flavours, these are the steps we feel we need to take as a department.
On the flip side of that, we would be saying that flavours are allowed for U.S. manufacturers but not for Canadian manufacturers. It would be highly problematic for the department to move down that path and say one group can use flavours and another group can't. It's a fairly long and slippery slope as we move through this.
The flavours being used are the ones this bill attempts to address, and we acknowledge they are used differently.
4 p.m.
Director, Office of Regulations and Compliance, Tobacco Control Program, Department of Health
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would add that 15% of youth 15 to 19 years of age are smoking tobacco products, and they are typically smoking cigarettes. Cigarettes do not need special colours or flavours to be attractive. Youth are using them even when we don't want them to.
What we're trying to do here is not to open the door, but actually to close the door on tobacco products that would make it even more tempting to experiment with tobacco products. We're trying to close that door. I'm not sure we can close the door on cigarettes yet, but we have many other measures--education and so forth--to try to close the door also on the use of plain cigarettes.
We've made a lot of progress. I was pointing out that since 1998 we have gone from 28% to 15%. We just want to continue. What we were saying was that this should be helpful in not opening a new door to attractive new products to tempt youth.
