Health Committee on Aug. 12th, 2009

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you all for being here.

I first want to say that we do appreciate the regular briefings that we have received. We know it takes time to do them and we appreciate the fact that Dr. Butler-Jones, Ms. Woods, and also Dr. Grondin and others have been able to give us some time, but they are no substitute for a real dialogue with parliamentarians, no substitute for an exchange of ideas and an expression of concerns that we are hearing.

I know, Madam Minister, you have suggested that we are playing politics by holding this meeting and that there really is no need for this midsummer meeting. You and others have suggested that. But there are summer camps out there looking at closing their doors. There are schools planning for the fall. There are businesses worrying about what to do. There are pregnant women calling us. So my first question is, if you don't think midsummer is an appropriate time to deal with this, what is a good time?

Obviously I am not here to criticize everything you are doing, but we are all here to say we don't sense that there is a complete coordinated national plan that has evolved over the summer that you are prepared to share with us today. That's what we're here for.

Let me get some specific questions in.

Who is in charge of the incident command and control centre? Who is in charge? Who is on the committee? Which departments are involved? How are you coordinating matters within your own government? Why, if in fact we are so far advanced in terms of our planning, do we not have a list of priorities in terms of who shall get the vaccine whenever it is ready, unlike in the United States, where the CDC developed that list two weeks ago? People are asking us about this. If you have done so much work this summer, how many new staff have been hired to help meet the needs and get prepared for the fall? What new budgetary provisions are you prepared to consider, given the fact that if this hits and when it hits, the impact on all of the provincial and territorial health systems will be significant, not to mention the whole fabric of society--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, to enable the minister to answer the questions, we are going to have to stop there. When she is finished answering those questions, if you have time, you can continue with your others.

Madam Minister.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Could you please answer those four questions.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you for those.

In terms of this summer meeting, I recognize the importance of a dialogue and discussions around this. We have made efforts to communicate as much information as we can to Canadians as well as committee members about the questions that are raised and so on.

In terms of what's happening and the statement that during midsummer no work is being done, there are a lot of people in the provinces and territories working very hard to plan for the fall, whether it be assessing how we are doing, whether it be understanding the more severe cases and why did this person pass on. This is all the work that is being done to prepare for the fall, whether it be the microbiology lab with intensive care units, vaccine development, or what guidelines are we going to develop. These are in the works right now. The summer months are a critical time for us to get that information completed. That involves a number of provinces that deliver health care, chief public health officers, the health boards, and so on. So there is a lot of coordination involved in that through the Public Health Agency of Canada as well as through my office.

Last week there was a discussion every day with all the provincial health ministers to plan for the fall. Who is in charge--

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

But I asked you four specific questions.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

As to who's in charge of the implementation in provinces and territories, the provinces' and territories' health ministries are.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Who's in charge of the federal incident control and command centre? Do you have a name for that committee, and which departments are involved?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Maybe I can answer that, Minister. Thank you.

Public Safety has overall responsibility for coordination of government—

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Could I interrupt you, please?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

No, Ms. Wasylycia-Leis. Please let—

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

It's a very specific question, and in the interest of time—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

May I ask you to let Dr. Butler-Jones finish, and then you can go on?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Yes, sure, as long as I can get some specific answers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Butler-Jones, go ahead.

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

The Minister of Health is the lead minister on the H1N1 response.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Who's the bureaucrat?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Me.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

So you're the head of the incident control and command centre?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

In terms of the emergency operation centre, we have it within the Public Health Agency, with Morris Rosenberg, who you know is the Deputy Minister of Health, with the Privy Council Office. In terms of linking to other departments, we do that directly; but in terms of bringing them together, he has regular meetings of deputy ministers, including me, from across the departments to coordinate the government's effort. I myself, as chief public health officer, am the senior official responsible for public health.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you.

Let me go back, then, to costs and the federal funding commitment to help in the event of this pandemic.

We know you've been negotiating with the provinces. My colleagues have already mentioned the fact that you're paying for, I believe, 60% of the vaccine. Why aren't you paying for all of the vaccine?

You're doing the contract with GSK. You're making those arrangements. In other instances, whether it's HPV or a meningococcal children's virus, you've paid for it fully. You have money, through this stimulus package, to bring in Bill Clinton; why don't you have money to pay for a vaccine in the event of a flu pandemic? Why aren't you at least following some of the work that has been done in the United States in terms of the federal government paying for the vaccine and in terms of a list of priorities for who shall receive vaccine?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Minister, would you like to answer?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

Yes. In terms of the vaccine cost, normally provinces and territories purchase their vaccines for the regular fall immunization—

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

But this isn't a seasonal flu we're talking about.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

I didn't say it was.

That falls within the jurisdiction. In this particular situation, discussions have been going on since about 2006 on the 60-40 arrangement. When we purchased the antivirals, that was what our cover was, the 60-40 with provinces and territories. On behalf of the provinces, we also retained a contract with GSK. We have invested approximately $17 million to retain a contract with GSK on behalf of the provinces and territories to purchase vaccines within Canada.

As to what's happening in the United States in terms of their timeline and stuff, the timelines of Canada and the United States are quite close. What I've said before is that we have a window of opportunity here within Canada to examine the situations and cases we have seen in Canada, the severity of some of those cases, and so on, to have a good understanding of prioritizing who will receive the vaccine.

That's an important point. We don't need to rush into it.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Okay. I appreciate that.