I couldn't speak to that.
Evidence of meeting #48 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pandemic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #48 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pandemic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
I couldn't speak to that.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
You couldn't speak to that.
Could anyone speak to that?
It's a contract between the federal government and GSK. I would hope that you could speak to it. It's your obligation to be aware of all the details pertaining to the contract you've signed with them.
And it does beg the question that if in fact they are getting millions of dollars in profit from the production of this vaccine, why is it necessary to give them another $7 million in the budget for another line to do the non-adjuvanted vaccine, since they originally received a contract for $323 million, when the Liberals were in power, to do it all? They were rolling in dough enough to be able to make a significant political donation back to the Liberal Party. They've benefited enormously from being the sole-source contract for the entire H1N1 pandemic in this country.
Can you at least tell us how much profit they're making and why you're giving them another $7 million?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
Thank you.
I made reference to GSK because you asked how much profit had been made. But we're not the only customer of GSK.
In terms of what we—
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
I'm sorry, Madam Minister, but my question specifically--
Madam Chair, I have a point of order, please.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Madam Wasylycia-Leis, will you please let the minister answer your question first?
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
On a point of order, please, my question specifically was, Madam Chair, about the profits that GSK was making vis-à-vis the contract with the federal Government of Canada.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
Yes, before you made reference to the federal government, I—
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Excuse me, Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, the minister needs a chance to answer your question. Then you can continue.
Madam Minister.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
I just wanted to clarify my response to the member as to why I said GSK.
I'm going to pass it over to Dr. David Butler-Jones, who will speak to what we are paying for the vaccine production in this country.
4:10 p.m.
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
Companies' profits are a matter for their shareholders and whatever is on the public record. Otherwise, it's proprietary commercial information, the same as for any manufacturer as it relates to any product.
On the issue of the sole source, at the time that the previous government entered into the contract with the predecessors of GSK, it was the only company willing to provide a secure domestic supply in Canada. As a result of that, we have the most secure supply in the world for vaccine for Canadians.
The $7 million is for the first phase of the new fill line, not related to non-adjuvanted but related to new pandemic vaccines that will increase capacity in Canada to provide even better security for Canadians.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Okay. Thank you very much.
Having the responsibility for this contract, I would suspect that you would know the cost to GSK, and therefore the difference between the cost and what you are actually paying.
However, let me turn now to the subject that was raised earlier by my colleague Carolyn Bennett around the cost to the provinces. We know that the cost for the pandemic is being largely borne by the provinces and the territories. The costs you are assuming are for 60% of the vaccine, so if you really stretch things, it amounts to about 10% of the entire response of governments to the pandemic being covered by the federal government and 90% by the provinces. I am wondering if that is fair, based on a normal response in the face of a national emergency.
Secondly, would you at least be willing to return to the provinces the costs associated with the fact that there were so many changes from your end, in terms of amounts of vaccine, the “on again, off again” approach, the fact that clinics were started and clinics were shut down, priority lists were made and priority lists were removed, people were moved about, staff were hired and staff were sent back home? All those changes are a huge extra burden—which has been raised with you, in fact. This is not me making it up; the provinces have raised it with you.
My question is very simple: will you reimburse the provinces for the extra costs they have identified as a result of problems associated with your delivery of this end of the pandemic?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would say again that Canada has done very well in responding to the pandemic in partnership with the provinces and territories. I cannot state that enough to Canadians. The success of how we've responded to this is a cooperation with the provinces and the territories, and I was the contact with them.
With regard to what we've invested, we've invested not only in 60% of the cost of the vaccine, but also in antivirals, in communication, in surveillance, in research. There are a number of investments that this government has made in response to this pandemic.
I also said to the provinces and territories, when we met in September in Winnipeg, that we will come back to the table to have a discussion, to evaluate how we are doing with the pandemic, what we learned from the pandemic, and what costs were incurred in the pandemic. But to make that commitment before we deal with this pandemic would not give you the accurate information that you would need to make a sound decision on what to do.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
You cannot anticipate dollar values for something whose magnitude you don't know. The provinces and territories have agreed to that, and I will say that.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
No, you're right. But I can tell you that in a case in Manitoba—and this would be replicated across the board—they've had to go for a special warrant. They now anticipate having to spend $100 million on the H1N1 pandemic, and $6.8 million of that is coming from you, the federal government, and that is based on 60% of the vaccine. So you see that it is a huge cost that the provinces are bearing.
In a normal national emergency, the numbers are reversed. It's usually 90% federal and 10% provincial. In this case, we have 90% provincial and 10% federal. I think that needs to be addressed.
Let just ask you this. In terms of the number of problems that have been identified with the whole rollout of the vaccine and the whole pandemic, including the delay in identifying priority groups, the failure to commit to the three million doses per week when you did, the change in terms of different advice on the adjuvanted and the non-adjuvanted, the concerns among the first nations communities, the failure to support some of those communities, the single-source contract, the public confusion over safety of the vaccine, the rollout difficulties in terms of erratic supply—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
My final question, based on all of that, is are you prepared to agree that there be a public inquiry in terms of this whole issue as soon as possible after the pandemic is at the end?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I think there were about 300 questions in there. I will try to capture what you're looking at.
The pandemic plan was developed in partnership with the provinces and territories. Who has what role is clearly defined in it. I've always said in my briefings with the committee as well as with Canadian provincial and territorial health ministers that we will always evaluate how we have done in responding to this pandemic, and we continue to do it on a daily basis. In their rollout, some provinces had some challenges and re-evaluated, repositioned, and started their rollout. They are responsible for the delivery of health care.
We've never had a situation in which we vaccinated 33 million people. This is the largest vaccination campaign. So we will continue to evaluate how we do--
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
NDP