Evidence of meeting #35 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendments.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
9:20 a.m.
NDP
9:20 a.m.
NDP
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Libby Davies NDP Vancouver East, BC
I would move a subamendment, and I'll hand it to you in a second--“recommends national standards in cooperation with provinces and territories”, and then continuing with the rest of the clause.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Dany Morin NDP Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
This is a subamendment that I like very much. Thank you, Ms. Davies.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Again, Madam Chair, with many of these amendments being brought forward, my argument would be that these areas are clearly provincial jurisdiction. The federal government cannot be even suggesting these without discussion with them first, in advance. The provinces and territories are well within their jurisdiction to set their own standards, depending on what their population needs. The standards of people may be different, whether it's in Iqaluit or downtown Toronto, and those standards could be different in different territories, different provincial jurisdictions.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Dany Morin NDP Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
I will answer my colleague Carrie that this is precisely why my colleague Davies moved the subamendment. She added a term that is very important, "in cooperation with provinces." That way a dialogue between the federal government and the provinces is ensured.
I wish to come back to my Liberal colleague's argument. There is a dialogue between the two parties sitting on the committee. We are proposing things. You are raising problems, we are cooperating fully. We are proposing things to attenuate any problems with these amendments. We are doing so to please you and so that you can vote in favour of these amendments. But every time we propose a solution you find another problem.
I doubt...
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Sorry, I thought you were done. You were repeating yourself. Do you have something?
Go ahead. You can talk it out.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Dany Morin NDP Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I will tell you when I have finished. It will be quite clear. I will not be right in the middle of a sentence.
As I was saying, it is very clear that we have...
I am sorry. You made me lose track of my idea.
Dr. Fry, go ahead, please.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
Thank you very much, Dr. Morin.
I wanted to say that Dr. Morin used a very important word here that everyone bandies about. It's called “cooperation”. The “co-” means “between”, and therefore cooperation is not a one-sided thing. I just wanted to say that.
Dr. Carrie made a comment about standards having to be dependent on the provinces. Dr. Carrie is a health professional, and therefore he should know that there are international standards around the world for practice, for the way things should be done, for the standards that must be achieved if there is to be good practice. How that is done, where it is done, and by whom it is done is the jurisdiction of the provinces.
The setting of standards has a national and an international scope. That's how it works in the professional practice of medicine or engineering. It works this way so that around the world we don't have people doing whatever they feel like doing. I can feel comfortable going to London tomorrow and getting the care I require because there are international standards, or I can feel comfortable going to Saskatchewan tomorrow and getting the standard of care that I need based on national standards. Standards do not remove the ability of the provinces to make a flexible decision about who delivers the care, where the care is delivered, and how that care is delivered. That is a provincial jurisdiction, and I would refer Dr. Carrie to the Canada Health Act if he wants to understand the issue a little better.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Dany Morin NDP Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Yes, I have remembered my conclusion. All I wanted to say was that, in light of the lack of cooperation by the government's members, I doubt their goodwill, their good faith and their willingness to improve this bill.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
This will be a recorded vote.
We'll vote first on the subamendment proposed by Ms. Davies.
(Subamendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)
Now we'll go to a recorded vote on the amendment itself.