Evidence of meeting #22 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pharmacist.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Janet Cooper  Senior Director, Professional and Membership Affairs, Canadian Pharmacists Association
Phil Emberley  Director, Pharmacy Innovation, Canadian Pharmacists Association
Harold Lopatka  Executive Director, Association of Faculties of Pharmacy of Canada
Karen Cohen  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Psychological Association
Roger Bland  Member, Professeur Emeritus, Department of Psychiatry, University of Alberta, Canadian Psychiatric Association

10:25 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Psychological Association

Dr. Karen Cohen

Psychologists are employed by many public institutions. CSC is the largest employer of psychologists. They do risk assessments and they deliver treatment, depending on venue, provincial and territorial. They work in schools. They work in hospitals. One of the challenges, though, is that we've really seen the practice profile of the profession change over the past couple of decades, the prime example being Toronto. A lot of teaching hospitals decreased their salaried resources, so psychologists are more in the private sector. Hospitals may maintain, well, this resource is still accessible to people; it's in the private sector. But once it's in the private sector it's no longer funded.

The other challenge I just want to underscore is that psychologists are very successfully self-employed; it isn't a pocketbook issue. It's a challenge because you have people coming in needing care who don't have the resources to pay for it, and that's difficult when you're a health provider and what you want to do is help people.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Thank you.

I wonder if both of you could just expand upon some of the barriers Canadians face in accessing the services of both psychologists and psychiatrists.

Dr. Bland, do you want to start with that?

10:30 a.m.

Member, Professeur Emeritus, Department of Psychiatry, University of Alberta, Canadian Psychiatric Association

Dr. Roger Bland

Usually it's a wait time issue.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

What is that average wait time, do you know?

10:30 a.m.

Member, Professeur Emeritus, Department of Psychiatry, University of Alberta, Canadian Psychiatric Association

Dr. Roger Bland

That would probably depend on where you are and what sort of a service you're seeking. If you're in a crisis, you can probably get some sort of service within the same day. If you're not in a crisis, your wait time could be up to several months.

I know we had a problem with children's wait times and reduced it from about 60 days down to 30 days. But in my opinion, 30 days is still too long.

I think most of the provinces have been doing work to try to reduce these wait times, and they've tackled it in different ways, of course. It's not satisfactory, but it's better than it was.

10:30 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Psychological Association

Dr. Karen Cohen

The barriers in the public system for psychologists are probably similar. There are bottlenecks in terms of the public system, how referrals have to go. In some institutions you can see a psychologist directly; in other institutions it has to go through medicine.

In the private sector the bottlenecks are created by whether you have the resources to pay for it, whether you require a medical referral to access the service, but generally you can see one more quickly in the private sector.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

One minute? Thank you.

You touched upon a point there and I just want to clarify that. Do patients require a referral from a family physician with regard to the health care opportunities through psychologists or psychiatrists?

10:30 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Psychological Association

Dr. Karen Cohen

Not to see psychologists.... If it is a requirement at all, it's either a requirement of a tertiary care institution that requires that the triage be done by medicine, or it's a requirement of the insurer that has a gatekeeping requirement, but it's not by licensure.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Go ahead, Dr. Bland.

10:30 a.m.

Member, Professeur Emeritus, Department of Psychiatry, University of Alberta, Canadian Psychiatric Association

Dr. Roger Bland

I don't think I have anything to say on that.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Okay, thank you.

I'm good, Chair. Thank you.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Okay, very good.

We're just a little past 10:30 now so this would probably be a good opportunity to suspend our meeting and give an opportunity for our guests to leave, and then we have about 10 minutes of in camera business that we need to take care of.

If it's okay with the committee, I think what we'll do is suspend for a couple of minutes.

Again, I thank our guests for being here today and providing some great, insightful ideas.

The meeting is suspended.

[Proceedings continue in camera]