Health Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

The RCMP has said that there's no evidence of widespread diversion of drugs from prescribed—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

That's interesting because just last week—you're probably aware of it as well—there was a large bust in my home community of Prince George. The local officers and RCMP leaders on the ground there said that there is widespread evidence and that it is taking place in our small rural communities. Are you aware of that?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I am aware of that. I'm also aware that Assistant Commissioner John Brewer, the top Mountie in B.C., said that “notable quantities” of prescription drugs were seized, but “there is currently no evidence to support a widespread diversion of safer supply drugs in the illicit market in BC or Canada.”

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Are you saying that the frontline officers that are actually on the ground making these arrests are lying?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I'm saying that the data is showing us from drug analysis seizures over the past 10 years, including when the Conservative government was in power, that there has been no increase in the diversion of hydromorphone. That's over the last 10 years, based on the samples. From your previous government's administration until now, there's been no change.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

How long has the SUAP been in place?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

The SUAP is ongoing. The next round of funding will be for the next two years.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay.

Your government launched the prescribed safe supply program and spent about $700 million on that—almost a billion dollars. What work did PHAC or your department do prior to launching that to study the evidence that safe supply was indeed safe?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I've just returned from Vienna, where I was at the UN drug commission meeting with counterparts such as Switzerland, Portugal and many other countries that have long-standing evidence of the importance and value of prescribed alternatives. There is ample—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I didn't ask that. I asked what work was done prior to—

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I'm answering your question. You asked what evidence—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

No, you're saying you attended....

What work was done by your department prior to launching that? That was my question.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

We are relying on the evidence of other jurisdictions to begin our evaluation of what would work here.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Is it scientific evidence, or is it anecdotal evidence?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

No, it is not anecdotal evidence. Switzerland has a long-standing prescriber model.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

That's interesting. Are the 72 doctors and indeed the other 42 leading addictions specialists lying when they say there's no scientific data beyond seven weeks with regard to the rate of mortality within one week with safe supply?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I reject the premise that anyone is lying. As I said in my opening remarks, we value the opinions of experts, of those with lived experience and of clinicians, and we include all of that in our contemplations and deliberations.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I have one question, Minister. Can you table with this committee the work that was done prior to the long-term evaluation the department did prior to launching the prescribed safe supply, the taxpayer-funded safe supply?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I'll pass it to ADM Costen, who is a key policy person in the program.

[Eric Costen, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Health]

Thanks for the question.

There was an expert advisory group that tabled a report prior to launching the projects. I'm happy to provide that to the committee.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

That would be great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Doherty.

Next is Mr. Naqvi.

Go ahead, please, for six minutes.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Welcome, Minister. Thank you for your presentation.

You said in your presentation that Canada is going through an opioid crisis that has taken countless lives and that your job, your mission, is to save lives and help Canadians. I think every one of us, every Canadian, will agree with you that this is precisely what we need to do.

My question to you is on the steps we need to take to prevent these deaths. In your view and from your meetings with experts, both nationally and internally, in dealing with the crisis, what steps would you say are necessary to saving the lives of Canadians?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you for the question.

It's what I refer to as the Canada model, which is rooted in four key principles that provide a full continuum of care for those who use substances and who need supports through our health system.

I would say first and foremost that we have to understand that this is a health crisis. It must have a patient-centred lens and also a human rights lens. When we take those things as our starting point in saving lives, we need to understand that the upstream actions we take are preventative. For those who use substances, we want to create forums for harm reduction, whether those are safe consumption sites or outreach centres and so on, so that we bring those who use substances into a place of safety and we are able to open the door to the health care system for them. From there, we can contemplate treatment.

Those who come through the harm reduction services provided by provincial jurisdictions are then able to access the treatment options available to them. All of this works with the understanding that both community safety and community engagement are also important, which is where law enforcement plays an important role by ensuring that drug traffickers, organized crime, money launderers and those who are manufacturing the deadly, illegal and toxic supply that we are seeing on our streets are tackled first-hand by frontline enforcement.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

You mentioned in your answer the importance of safe consumption sites. There's a lot of misinformation about safe consumption sites. There's one in my community here in Ottawa Centre, and I've seen first-hand the manner in which it saves lives. They get SUAP funding and appreciate that.

Can you explain how these interventions provide critical support to people who use drugs? Give Canadians a bit of a glimpse into a safe consumption site. What would they see? You and I have visited sites in our respective communities. Many Canadians have not.