Evidence of meeting #14 for Health in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spots.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Patricia Houston  Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto
Amber McPherson  Emergency Medicine Physician, As an Individual
Marie Dagenais  Executive Director and Registrar, National Dental Examining Board of Canada
Meredith Irwin  Paediatrician-in-Chief, Department of Paediatrics, The Hospital for Sick Children (SickKids), Representative, Pediatric Chairs of Canada

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Good morning, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 14 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Health.

We acknowledge that we are meeting on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

I want to go over some of the basic guidelines.

Please remember to turn off your microphone when you are not speaking. Please remember to leave your device somewhere on the decal you see in front of you on the table so that it doesn't interfere with the sound and bother the people who are doing the interpretation.

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Madam Chair, I have a point of order. There's no interpretation.

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You're not getting translation.

Can you hear me now?

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

I can't hear you, Madam Chair. I don't know if the machine is defective, but I'll try another one.

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I don't know. Let's find out what's going on.

We'll suspend until we hear what's going on and get Madame Larouche set up.

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

We'll resume the meeting.

Just for the sake of our witness, I would like to say to please turn off your mic when you're not speaking and turn it on when you're speaking.

Please understand what the term “going through the chair” means: It means you're not allowed to talk to each other across the room. If you have a question, ask for a point of clarification. The chair will then make sure that happens. For whatever points you wish to make, go through the chair, please. It just makes life much easier.

I would like to welcome Ms. Houston.

We will give you five minutes to present. I will literally say, “one minute”, and then “30 seconds”, just to give you a heads-up so that you can end. If you cannot finish everything you wish to say, there will be a question and answer session in which you will probably be able to elaborate on some of the things you wanted to say.

I'll begin now. We have before us our witness, Dr. Patricia Houston, vice-dean of medical education at the Temerty faculty of medicine.

Dr. Houston, you have five minutes for your opening remarks.

Dr. Patricia Houston Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto

Thank you very much for inviting me here today, Madam Chairperson.

First and foremost, I would like to apologize for the internal miscommunication that occurred at Temerty Medicine that caused some delay in my appearance. It is certainly an honour for me to be here today to answer your questions and to speak about medical education and how it contributes to Canada's health care system.

As you have stated, my name is Dr. Patricia Houston. I'm a practising anesthesiologist and critical care physician, and I have done this for over 40 years. I currently practise at St. Michael's Hospital in Toronto, but I have also had many leadership roles over the course of my career. Currently, as of 2020, I am the vice -dean of medical education at the University of Toronto's Temerty Faculty of Medicine, where I'm a full professor. In this role, I am responsible for the MD program, postgraduate medical education programs, continuing professional development programs, the office of learner affairs and our integrated physician scientist training programs, and, most recently, I took on the oversight of our expansion to our Scarborough campus.

This study topic is important. All Canadians want a health care system that has the capacity and the resilience to meet the needs of our patients, our families and our communities. The University of Toronto has a long history of leadership in medical education. We are the largest single contributor to practising physicians, representing over 20% of newly trained Canadian doctors who graduated into practice in 2024.

Medical education is a long, complicated and complex process, so with your indulgence, I would like to outline the journey very quickly. I apologize in advance to my physician colleagues who are members of this committee and are very familiar with this, but I think it is important context.

After completing an MD program, whether it be at U of T, another Canadian medical school or an international medical school, all learners must go on to the second part of their education: postgraduate training, which most people know as medical residency. The reason it's called the residency is in the very old days, even before my time, these trainees actually lived in the hospital and thus were called residents. Residency training can range from two years for family medicine to over seven years for programs such as neurosurgery.

The number of provincially funded residency positions is determined by the province in collaboration with the educational institutions and our health care partners. Temerty Medicine trains physicians across more than 80 accredited postgraduate specialty, subspecialty and family medicine programs. Our family medicine program is one of the largest in the world: In 2024, 32% of newly graduated family doctors who trained in Ontario and went into practice in Ontario graduated from the University of Toronto.

We also have internationally trained physicians who enter the health workforce in Canada through one of three pathways.

First, there are international medical graduates, or IMGs, who have Canadian citizenship or permanent resident status. These learners have gone abroad to complete medical school and have returned home to complete their residency requirements. They must go through the CaRMS R1 PGY1 match process and they are eligible for our publicly funded residency positions across Canada.

Second, there are internationally trained physicians who are fully certified to practise. They have completed both undergraduate and postgraduate education. If they satisfy immigration and licensing requirements to practise, they enter practice in Canada.

The third pathway, which I think is what you want to speak about today, is for internationally funded trainees. Canada is known around the world for its high-calibre medical education system. By design, we have created spaces for internationally trained doctors who are funded to come to Canada temporarily to train and then return home, and most are funded by governments or institutions. We train both residents and fellows who go on to a subspecialty, which is very specialized training, after their residency.

We at Temerty Medicine are proud to serve Canadians and the Canadian health care system. I welcome any questions you might have about the work that we do.

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much.

I now go to the question and answer segment. The first is a six-minute round. It means that every question and answer must be done within six minutes. Once again, I will give the questioner and the person answering the opportunity to be as precise and as concise as possible so we can get enough questions in.

I begin with the Conservatives and Mr. Mazier for six minutes, please.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Dr. Houston.

Dr. Houston, how many foreign doctors did the University of Toronto train last year through the visa trainee program?

11:20 a.m.

Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto

Dr. Patricia Houston

Last year, in total, we had 459 physicians in this program.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB

That's in the residency program.

11:20 a.m.

Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto

Dr. Patricia Houston

That's in the residency program—

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto

Dr. Patricia Houston

—and the fellowship program, so it's the total of residency and fellowship....

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB

How many returned to their home country after training?

11:20 a.m.

Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto

Dr. Patricia Houston

They are all expected to return to their home country. It is part of the contract that we have with their sponsor and that the trainee also signs on to.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB

How many visa trainees completed their training at the University of Toronto last year?

Dre Patricia Houston

I don't have that exact number, but I can provide it to you. They range from PGY-1s to PGY-7s. We accept between two and four residents into family medicine, and they return after two years. Those in the Royal College specialty and subspecialties train for a variable number of years, depending on the residency program.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB

So, do you have a rough idea? Is it, like, 1,000 or 500?

11:20 a.m.

Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto

Dr. Patricia Houston

Oh, no, it's not that large. If we have 459 in the program, the maximum we could send out in any given year would be 459.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB

Okay, if you could forward that information, that would be great.

11:20 a.m.

Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto

Dr. Patricia Houston

I will certainly give you the information as to how many graduated last year.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB

Okay.

How many Canadian medical students graduated from the University of Toronto last year?

11:20 a.m.

Vice Dean, Medical Education, Temerty Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto

Dr. Patricia Houston

The current cohort is 303 students who came in. Last year, I believe we graduated 259 students.

The reason for the discrepancy is that we have expanded our medical school numbers, our cohort, in the last years due to increased funding.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB

Okay, yes. I got my number. Thank you so much.

How much does a single Saudi sponsored visa trainee pay to the University of Toronto per year of training?