Evidence of meeting #13 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was privacy.
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes, I haven't considered this question a long time, but I don't think there's anything that would prohibit him and I understand there are some agreements. Did I--
4:35 p.m.
Assistant Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I don't know about Statistics Canada, but certainly, as I said earlier, the Chief Electoral Officer has a number of those agreements already in place. Whether or not he has one with Stats Canada remains to be determined. I can't ascertain that.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
That would seem to me the most accurate way to get a list, once every 10 years. And then use his other comparative list--people who move, people who die, whatever it is. Okay, that's one.
The other one, the second--
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Excuse me, hon. member, there is something that has come to my attention. There may be some legal issues that I think I had better not comment on here, but my office was consulted by Elections Canada a couple of years ago about linkages with StatsCan.
We thought there was part of the Canada Elections Act that might have prohibited the linkage at that time. Perhaps, Mr. Chair, we could look at this and come back with a written answer to this, because we did have that one experience when I asked to look. As I said, there are very few complaints against Elections Canada. We had that consultation some three years ago. I have only a brief description of it here and I'd like to be accurate in my answers.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
I'm not going to cut off your time, Mr. Preston. The committee is working very fast. In what time period could we expect that answer? How about 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock tomorrow?
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Three o'clock tomorrow?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
We have a meeting at 11 o'clock. I am not going to try to push you too hard, but it would be kind of nice to have the information for that meeting. Would that be at all possible?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
The other most accurate form of creating this permanent electors list that the Chief Electoral Officer would love, is enumeration, straight door-to-door knocking and asking people if they live there and if they are of voting age.
That is how we did it for many elections. Scott, you talked about wrong addresses on cards or people seeing other people's cards. You and I both remember when we used to post the enumeration lists on the local utility poll for everybody to look at to see if they were on the list.
I think we have gone a long way in privacy and I agree the address should be off the card. The card can come to my house to tell me where I vote--if you're a resident at this house, vote at that address--then it couldn't be used as ID at the poll either.
But from a straight enumeration point of view and from a privacy point of view, what do you think about two people knocking on your door and asking you who you are, how old you are and whether you're a Canadian citizen, going all through your neighbourhood and asking these questions? And these may be your neighbours, to begin with.
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I presume they are doing this under colour of law.
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Conservative
Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
Sure, they have obviously taken an oath, I would think, as enumerators.
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes. This is like the census or something.
I would defer to the director general of elections. I don't know much about enumeration. Is this necessary?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
We have to have lists to compare against. We have to say who lives in these houses and are eligible to vote.
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Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes. Is this accurate? I understand that there are problems with the accuracy of enumeration. So again, why are we doing this?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
We'd like to find another way to do it accurately, which is why I asked the census question. It seems to me now the most accurate way I've found, but is it, of course, allowable?
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
My understanding is that a very accurate way now is to put a lot of these databases together and then from time to time do spot checks, because our population is rarely at home. It is at home at different times. Some can't vouch for the others and so on.
But there is a minimum of information that we have to give in certain circumstances in order to be a citizen of society. I think identifying yourself for electoral purposes...voting is a right but it is also privilege. If you look at countries around the world, I think it is legitimate to be required to identify yourself.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Thank you very much.
I believe the committee is coming to the end of this round of questions, so please give it a good deal of thought and let me know. I've run out of names.
Mr. Godin.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I would like to follow up.
Mr. Preston asked about obtaining information from Statistics Canada.
Once Elections Canada receives that information, where does it go? It goes through several hands, that of volunteers, of various political parties and moves around in offices where dozens of people work. The list is there, it is being compared and consulted. This is the list of citizens. I do not believe that presently Elections Canada circulates a citizens' list that shows the age and all sorts of other information. On this list, there are only names of people and addresses.
If dates of birth were part of the list given to political parties and various groups, I think this would be a violation of privacy.
4:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Do you mean that giving the list to political parties would be a problem?
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Yes, I am talking about a list that would contain lots of information, such as age, etc.
4:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
This is precisely the challenge: trying to ensure the electoral process conforms to modern privacy standards. In order to play their proper role in the electoral process, what information on citizens do political parties need? What do they do with it? I stand to be corrected, but presently there is no framework that regulates the use of this information in the context of the electoral process, except the Canada Elections Act. There is no framework that protects this information. This is what I have been saying to you. All over the world, people are starting to reflect on this issue because of the linkages that are possible with many other databases, including commercial data banks and because of the wide circulation of this information in the electoral context and the offices of MPs.