Evidence of meeting #21 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vote.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marc Mayrand  Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
Rennie Molnar  Deputy Chief Electoral Officer, Electoral Events, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
Stéphane Perrault  Senior General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

I call the meeting to order.

We're late getting started today because of a vote in the House. I would like to say that we are in public today.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(a)(vi), we are considering matters relating to the election of members to the House of Commons. We have with us today the chief electoral officer, Monsieur Mayrand.

We're happy to have you back with us today. We have a number of topics to cover, but I know you have an opening statement, so we'll let you start with your statement and introduce your members. Then I think we'll get into a pretty interesting discussion.

11:30 a.m.

Marc Mayrand Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am pleased to appear before this Committee today to discuss four important subjects. The first of these is the draft Referendum Regulations I forwarded to the Committee in June. The second is our election readiness. The last two subjects include the Report on the Evaluations of the 40th General Election of October 14, 2008, and my forthcoming recommendations to Parliament. Because of the number of items I have been asked to address, my remarks highlight the key issues.

I am accompanied today by Rennie Molnar, Deputy Chief Electoral Officer, Electoral Events; and Stéphane Perreault, Senior General Counsel.

Let’s start with the referendum question.

The Referendum Act requires the Chief Electoral Officer to make regulations adapting the Canada Elections Act so that it can apply to a federal referendum. The current regulations were last updated in 2001, based on the Act as it existed at that time. Parliament has since made several amendments to the Canada Elections Act. As a result, new regulations must be made that reflect the current Act.

On June 12, 2009, I forwarded the proposed regulations to you and sought your feedback as I intend to make the regulations in November of this year. While the drafting of the regulations is essentially a technical exercise, a number of difficulties arose when we tried to integrate the provisions of the 1992 Referendum Act with those of the Canada Elections Act, a statute that has evolved significantly since that time. I am pleased to report that we have now found viable solutions to some of these difficulties, particularly in connection with the distribution of the lists of electors.

In other cases, however, the issues identified in the document you received in June remain. I indicated in my note that the Referendum Act provides no authority for the returning officers to appoint deputy returning officers and clerks except for those individuals recommended by parties. This could certainly become a challenge in light of the decline of the number of workers recommended by political parties, which in some provinces, amounts to as little as 2% or 3% of workers hired for an election.

We have also recently identified two other matters of which you should be aware. The first concern is that, in the current Referendum Act, inmates serving a sentence of two years or more cannot vote in a referendum. That is because while the exclusion of inmates under the Canada Elections Act was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada in Sauvé (2002) and is therefore without effect in the context of elections, it remains formally in the Act. However, in Haig v. Canada, the Supreme Court ruled in 1993 that the constitutional right to vote in an election did not extend to voting in a referendum. Given this ruling of the Court, there would be no authority for me to adapt the rules to enable these prisoners to vote during a referendum. This discrepancy with respect to the treatment of inmates can only be addressed in the context of a legislative review.

The second challenge is that while the Director of Public Prosecutions Act provides the DPP specific authority to prosecute offences under the Canada Elections Act, it does not give him the express authority to prosecute offences under the Referendum Act. The uncertainty regarding the authority of the DPP may compromise the ability to prosecute.

In light of the various issues related to the age of the Referendum Act, I think that it would be highly desirable for Parliament to consider a legislative review. I would be pleased to provide you with specific recommendations regarding the difficulties that are technical in nature. In the meantime, my intention is to make the regulations in November in order for us to have an up-to-date legislative framework in case a referendum is called.

I would like to turn now to election readiness.

Let me take this opportunity to assure you that Elections Canada is ready to administer a general election whenever one is called. I recently held a teleconference with representatives of the Advisory Committee of Political Parties to share our approach and level of preparedness for a general election. When it comes, the 41st general election will be delivered with some targeted enhancements which were put into place in response to the agency's post-election evaluations.

Among these we directed returning officers to conduct a review of advance poll districts in rural areas with the objective of improving access for rural voters. As a result, 397 advance polls will be added across the country.

Returning officers are in the process of sharing the results of this exercise with representatives of political entities who were consulted during the review stage.

I have also made some minor changes to the List of Pieces of Identification I authorize, as Chief Electoral Officer. These changes reflect feedback from the consultations and the evaluations that we conducted on the voter identification requirements.

In addition, we have revised our approach for training election officers and have updated our training manuals. These changes should ensure a more consistent application of the voter identification rules by poll workers. Last week, I participated in several meetings that were held across the country with returning officers and training officers and found that our efforts were well received.

When I appeared before you last February, I indicated that we intended to review the tariff for the payment of electoral workers. However, in light of the Expenditure Restraint Act, which was passed by Parliament last winter, I've had to defer this review for the time being.

Before concluding on this topic, let me say that I am aware that concerns have been expressed regarding the potential impacts of the H1N1 flu virus during an electoral event. I take these concerns very seriously, as impacts may vary considerably across the country. My overall concern is to exercise due diligence by providing continuous services to electors. This may require us to adapt services to circumstances as they arise.

In many cases the steps we are taking to address H1N1 challenges are extensions of contingencies we already have in the field to address situations such as poll worker absenteeism, staff shortages, or difficulties in finding poll sites. We are applying the guidelines of the Public Health Agency of Canada by adopting additional precautionary measures to provide a healthy environment for electors and workers. This includes ensuring that alcohol-based hand cleansers are available at each polling station and that posters with information on H1N1 prevention are on display

My next topic today is on evaluation and recommendations. The evaluation report, a first for Elections Canada, discusses the results of our evaluations of the 40th general election. It serves as a bridge between my statutory report and the report on recommended changes to the legislation, which will be coming later on.

Our evaluations, while generally positive, and in fact they are quite positive, point to a number of areas in need of either legislative or administrative improvements. In some cases we are in the process of developing recommendations to address issues raised by the evaluations; in other cases we are exploring what can be accomplished administratively.

I would like to briefly discuss three key areas: identification, political financing, and administrative processes.

On identification, according to our evaluations the vast majority of electors were aware of the new identification requirements. They accepted them, and they came to vote prepared to satisfy those requirements. However, some groups, such as students, seniors in residences, electors residing in long-term-care facilities, and aboriginal Canadians living on reserves, appear to have experienced more difficulties than the general population with the proof of address requirement. I believe one way of addressing this is to continue to engage such electors to ensure we fully understand the challenges they face with the requirements so we are able to develop proper solutions.

Over the next few months we will also be evaluating the feasibility of adding the voter information card to the list of authorized documents to make it easier for these electors and others to prove their addresses.

Finally, we should consider whether the current provisions for vouching may be overly restrictive of electors' abilities to vouch for family members. An approach similar to that used in British Columbia, where a relative can vouch for any voters who are family members, may be better adapted to the needs of electors.

Political financing is another area of concern that I think merits your attention. Successive changes to the Canada Elections Act have placed a significant regulatory burden on participants in the political process. This is particularly acute for official agents and financial agents who are required to understand and respect the requirements. My next report will propose changes that aim to lessen this burden, within the context, of course, of the existing public policy framework.

Finally, on administrative processes, feedback from returning officers points to a growing concern about our ability to ensure sustainable services at polling sites across the country while working within the constraints set by the act. While we can, as I mentioned earlier, improve our training procedures and manuals, we believe it may be time to explore new models for voting operations. This approach could provide better service to electors and address some of the challenges involved in recruiting and training workers for increasingly complex tasks.

The key priority for my office is to take advantage of new technology to make the electoral process more accessible to electors. We have recently begun work on e-registration, an initiative aimed at improving registration services by allowing electors to register online. This project is at the stage of design, and its initial implementation is planned for March 2011. My forthcoming report, following consultation with political parties, will include proposals for legislative changes that would allow us to implement online registration. I now expect this report to be tabled in the spring of 2010.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my remarks for today. I would like to thank you for the opportunity to discuss these issues with the committee.

At this time, my colleagues and I would be pleased to answer any questions.

Thank you.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you very much.

As we've seen from your opening remarks, we have a number of areas we'd like to cover today. I know there are many questions out there, so we'll get right to it.

Monsieur Proulx.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Mr. Mayrand. I want to welcome you and thank you, and Messrs. Molnar and Perreault, for agreeing to meet with us this morning.

You talked about adding nearly 400 advance polls. Are those changes reserved for rural areas or have you also considered certain changes or increases in urban areas?

11:40 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

Marc Mayrand

We've considered everything. As regards what was ready for October 1, we were talking about the introduction of new districts for rural ridings and communities. The other phase, which consists in revising all polling divisions of all the ridings, is underway and should be completed in the spring.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

I understand. However, some regions are still being developed and increased. That may not be the case everywhere in Canada or across the country, but it's the case in my region. We have new living areas, as it were. You're going to look at electoral boundary readjustment, but that also leads to a problem with advance polling. The polling stations are too far away and not big enough. Perhaps a review can be conducted at some point, taking into consideration all the changes that there will be in the polling divisions.

You say you've made some minor changes to the List of Pieces of Identification. I understood from your other report that you want to add another piece that would be accepted, the voter—

11:45 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

Marc Mayrand

—the voter information card.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

That's it. We had previously discussed that. We were fearful, just as you are, because that card would be sent all over the place without there necessarily being any complete control by Canada Post. If Canada Post checked the names, that might be different. How do you think you can prevent fraud?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

Marc Mayrand

First I want to emphasize that the voter information card has not yet been added to the list of authorized pieces. Consequently, it will not be possible to use that card in the next election that was recently triggered.

Over the next few months, we're going to conduct a feasibility study. Some information suggests that 90% of voters receive correctly identified and correctly addressed information cards. That represents a large number of people. So we're trying to address specific situations. I mentioned the case of seniors living in residences who often don't have access to other pieces of identification. We've seen this problem during electoral events, and yet a review is being done in seniors centres. We're go to visit them, we go back and see them 10 years later and they don't have the pieces of identification. So that could be a solution for certain voter groups. In the coming months, we'll first be checking the effectiveness of that tool, if we were to adopt it.

In addition, what are the measures that we'll have to take? First we'll have to review the identity card itself and review the method for distributing and collecting the cards in order to avoid dispersion.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

All right.

You're talking about suggestions made by candidates and about the bureaucratic burden. This will seem trivial, but you'll remember a recommendation that I made. I asked you a question about the appropriateness of doing shredding at Elections Canada's headquarters instead of letting the regional chairs do their own shredding.

I understand that transporting all that back to Elections Canada supports the carriers, but there are definitely significant savings to be made if you have the shredding done in each riding.

11:45 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

Marc Mayrand

That's something we'll have to consider, indeed. However, we have to make sure that electoral material is well identified.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

All right.

I have one final question on the official agents. This is an important strength, and I would like the chair to extend my speaking time so that you can answer the question, but that won't happen.

We have to reduce red tape and the ways of reporting... What are you considering doing to improve the situation of official agents?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

Marc Mayrand

Over the summer, we sent 24 or 25 discussion documents to members of the Advisory Committee of Registered Political Parties to gather their views on the various issues, a number of which concerned the regulatory burden of political entities. We're looking at the possibility of reviewing the requirements. For example, official agents that are behind in producing their reports have to go to court. That's an additional cost for them.

These are the kinds of measures we're currently examining, without of course questioning the principles of transparency and accountability that must be complied with after an election. These are more technical measures that are designed, as far as possible, to simplify or reduce the agents' burden.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you.

Mr. Lukiwski.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Monsieur Mayrand.

If I may, I want to deal with some of the elements of your preparedness for H1N1. I think we all hope it doesn't become as serious as some are suggesting it might; we hope it doesn't become a pandemic. However, obviously governments, your agency, and others have to be prepared for the worst.

You're aware that there's a series of byelections. I'm going to ask you about the one in British Columbia specifically, because news reports seem to indicate that the rate of H1N1 incidence being diagnosed in British Columbia is rising fairly rapidly.

I have a couple of questions.

Obviously I'd like to know what your level of preparedness is, specifically for the British Columbia by-election, but in particular, what would happen, as an example, if someone walked into a polling station who was coughing, sneezing, and exhibiting all of the traits of someone who perhaps had contracted H1N1? Clearly, because of privacy considerations you couldn't question that person, but how do you balance the right of the individual who wants to vote with respect for public safety? That's question number one.

Secondly—and God forbid this ever happens—what would happen if, in a particular riding or a region where there was a wide outbreak of H1N1, thousands of potential voters were stricken with it and were unable to vote? Have you considered, for example, either moving or rescheduling voting day? Do you think this would have an impact on the outcome of an election? This could be quite a serious situation. I'd like to know in more detail than you've provided in your report the type of contingency plans you have been considering in case of an widespread outbreak of H1N1.

And there are those particular questions: what happens if somebody walks into the polling station who's obviously ill and may have H1N1—how do you deal with that individual?—and what happens if, before voting day, thousands of potential voters have been stricken and are literally unable to come to the polling station?

11:50 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

Marc Mayrand

Again, it's a matter of serious concern that we're seeking to address, based on the advice of public health authorities, of course.

In the case of the by-election in B.C., we're already taking steps. Of course there will be material, hand sanitizers that will be distributed and available at each polling station across the riding. There will also be wipes to allow for cleaning of surfaces throughout the day. There will also be training for our workers as well as for the information officer who greets electors when they come. They will point to the posters indicating best practice for reducing the risk of dissemination of infections, and again, beyond that, we will have to deal with the specific circumstances at hand. But our central supervisors will be trained to deal with situations as they arise.

With regard to a possible more severe outbreak, which would cause electors to abstain from attending polling facilities, again, this all depends on the exact circumstances at hand. Electors have various alternatives for voting. They can use advance polls. They can use the regular poll. For those who are truly impeded from attending polling stations, they could also vote in person at the returning officer's office or vote by mail. So there are alternatives for electors.

Again, contemplating some severe scenarios, the authority under the legislation to adapt is there to deal with specific emergencies that may arise during voting days. That being said, the act is very clear on extending hours for voting. It does not authorize rescheduling of voting days.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Mr. Chair--and I'm sorry, Mr. Mayrand--I'm needed in the House for a moment, so I will cede my time to my colleague, Mr. Reid.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

There are two minutes left, Mr. Reid, if you'd like to take the two minutes.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON

There is just one thing that really does concern me. I've had this concern for a while. I may even have mentioned it to you at a previous meeting. One of the ideal locations from an accessibility point of view for polling stations is at seniors' residences. Obviously, they're wheelchair accessible, for one thing. But every time I go into one on election day, I have the same thought. You come in and there's that little hand sanitizer at the front and the note saying if you are suffering from a communicable disease, please come no further. But of course it's your right to vote on voting day. So that polling station, not a mobile poll but a polling station in a seniors' home for people from the outside community, produces two conflicting rights at work.

Obviously, that thought must have crossed your mind as well. I'm just wondering how you suggest dealing with that particular problem.

11:55 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

Marc Mayrand

That's one of the issues that is being considered in dealing specifically with the H1N1 situation, and we did get representation from some authorities handling those seniors' homes to the effect that as much as possible we should limit having the general elector population attending those sites.

So returning officers are looking at alternative sites, to redirect the general public who traditionally have voted at seniors' homes. That's one of the measures that is being looked at right now for the by-elections, for sure.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON

Also, is there any consideration of doing that more generally as a general practice in the future?

11:55 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer

Marc Mayrand

Again, it depends. Finding sites for times that meet access requirements, as you mentioned, and also locations in terms of proximity to electors—these are important considerations, but of course they have to be balanced against the preoccupation for health of senior residents. And yes, we are looking at alternatives--always.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON

Can I make one suggestion in this vein, very, very briefly?

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Mr. Reid, do it on the next round. We'll get back. It's pretty tight today, so I want to make sure everybody gets a chance.

Monsieur Guimond.

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have the same concern as my colleague Mr. Proulx concerning the 397 added advance polling stations. At first glance, that doesn't seem a lot to me.

How many advance polling stations are there in Canada?