Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 8th, 2009

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

When you were here last, I expressed concerns about university students, the abysmal numbers around young people voting in this country, and what we can do to help address that. Perhaps I could get some comments from you as to where you're going with some ideas, some initiatives on this.

I know the focus has been on trying to bring the importance of voting to the young people, and there have been some initiatives in that area. My sense is that we have to go beyond that. I raised this the last time around. For example, reading your brief, it seemed the University of Lethbridge, when they announced that people were going to be able to vote at the university no matter where they lived, thought that would be a great exercise. I see the complications around that, but at St-FX last year, which is in Antigonish, the advanced poll was in Stellarton--45 minutes to an hour away--and not a lot of university students have transportation. So the only time they could really access an advance poll was if they were home during a break weekend. When a lot of kids go to school, that's it, they're gone for the year.

What I'm looking at is an answer that will not only motivate the young people to vote, but also bring the mechanism where it's advertised that we're going to be on campus: advertise the week before and let them know we're going to be there for a week, so make sure you get your vote in the box. I'm only thinking about what we can do to engage those people.

[Marc Mayrand]

We're working, I would say, at a more generic level, and then at a more specific level, in terms of delivering an election. At the more generic level, first of all we're doing a fair bit of research to understand the phenomena and the factors at play now, and we're trying to disseminate and broaden the understanding around the issues that affect turnout. We're looking at working with various youth organizations across the country to learn from them how to best engage youth in the democratic process. We have a number of initiatives at a broader, general level, which would be, I guess, working in the longer term.

In terms of delivering an election, I think one of the things that I mentioned today again is that students may face challenges in proving their addresses. One solution to alleviate their challenges in proving their address--again, I'm referring to the voter information card--is those students can be registered on campus. If they live in residence, they will receive a voter identification card at their residence. That could help establish their residence on campus, even though their driver's licence shows that they come from Halifax but they're studying in Ottawa. So that would be one improvement that would facilitate voting by students.

Beyond that, we need to look at the legislation. I've heard the question several times, “Why don't we let students vote on campus?” I think we would need to put a fair bit of thought around that, and what the impact would be. What are some other scenarios or some alternatives that need to be considered? But in every case, it requires substantive changes to the Canada Elections Act.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I simply think everybody around the table would share a similar view, that we have to do our utmost to engage young people. Even more so, we can spend whatever money we want, but we have to make it absolutely as easy as possible to facilitate that.

[Marc Mayrand]

The one thing we need to do a fair bit more, I think--and it's not only Elections Canada, I think it's the whole civil society--is to engage the young generation much earlier and on an ongoing basis, not simply around election time. Over the next while, provided the pace of elections is reduced a bit, it's certainly something that Elections Canada would like to pursue with various partners.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Monsieur Lauzon.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you very much for coming, gentlemen.

I have some concerns, as some of my colleagues have, about this H1N1. It's probably the same in all ridings. In my riding, many of the polling stations are in schools or seniors homes, which is where you have a high collection of people very vulnerable to this H1N1. Has any thought been given to...? Let's say, for example, if there were a spring election, has Elections Canada thought that maybe we'd better not go into the homes for the aged or to the schools to vote? Maybe we should go to a more private location. The other places are legion halls. It seems you always go where there is a concentration of people, which will probably cause some problems with H1N1. Heaven forbid that should happen, but as you said, you have to be prepared for that. I would be concerned, especially with the elderly, because their health is sometimes very fragile.

Another thing, the last time under ideal conditions on October 14, I believe it was, we had 60% turnout across the country. As one of my colleagues said, what if we have...? If 10% of the people are sick with H1N1 and can't get to the polls, what is the threshold? Is it 10%? If we go down to 50%, does that qualify as a legitimate election? If we go down to 30%? What's the bar? Where is the bottom? We could end up having an election and maybe having 30% to 40% of people attending, if it was at the wrong time. We have to give some thought as to what you're going to do about that.

The flip side of that is what are you going to do if on election day...? Every year we have a few phone in who can't make it. What are you going to do if 30% of your staff doesn't show up? Are you training extra in that event, so you have a built-in 20% or 30%? Has that been considered? There are a lot of things....

[Marc Mayrand]

Absolutely, that's part of the scenario. There are two main considerations: maintaining our capacity to deliver service to electors while making sure we have enough staff. If there is a breakout.... And one thing we should always keep in mind is that these breakouts tend to be local. In a particular riding, a certain area of a riding, we may have severe shortages. We have some experience in dealing with that. We always have standby workers.

In light of the concerns around H1N1, we will be increasing the number of standbys.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

To what level?

[Marc Mayrand]

Right now it's about 10%. We'll be looking at 20%. Again, that will depend on what is happening through the course of the campaign.

An alternative to that, if we are truly short of staff, is that we can merge polls. This requires less staff, but it has some impact on electors. They may have to wait longer.

If there is such a breakout, you would expect that if we're missing 30% of our staff because of H1N1, I would think that electors would be showing up in lesser numbers because they would be affected by the same circumstances. Our staff comes from the community.

In terms of sites, we always have backup sites. I shouldn't say always; in 99% of cases we have backup sites. The issue with H1N1 is that maybe we should increase the number of alternatives.

As I mentioned earlier, given some of the concerns about the use of seniors homes, we should avoid having the general population attending those locations. We'll look at that, but that may require affected electors to travel farther to get to a proper location. Close to 70% of our sites are schools, community centres, municipal halls, churches or other places of worship. We're working as we speak with the providers of those sites to understand what their approach would be if there was a breakout. We're looking at alternative options. For example, what would our option be if a school board were to close all the schools in a riding? I can't say it wouldn't have an effect. It would. We might have alternative sites, but it would impact on electors.

That being said, I think we have to be careful to monitor what the health authorities are advising. So far there is no indication an election represents any greater risk than any public or social activities the population runs on any given day. There's no indication at this time that there would be a massive close-out of sites.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.

Monsieur Guimond.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Mayrand, you said—and it's written in your document—that you went to a number of meetings across Canada that were attended by returning officers. They no doubt mentioned to you that it was hard to find election workers. I'm talking about officials appointed by the returning officers on recommendation by the parties—and even their own staff.

There are two problems, including remuneration, which is distinctly inadequate. In view of the fact that hours have been extended to encourage people to exercise their right to vote, the person who was earning $5 an hour now earns $3. This has become a problem. In the second paragraph on page 7 of your remarks, you say you intended to review that, but had decided to defer that review in view of the current economic situation.

That's understandable, but I'd like to know how long it will be deferred. The recession will apparently be lasting a year or two more; I don't really know. In short, are you going to consider this question again in the shorter term?

In addition, since you have to find people who aren't working, some of those people receive the Guaranteed Income Supplement. Do you think people who work from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. or from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. in a plant or office will use their leave days to go and work there? If you go into polling stations on election day, you'll no doubt see that these are retirees, students or employment insurance claimants.

Could we consider the possibility that their earnings, as a result of a legislative amendment, I agree, might not be considered as income within the meaning of the Income Tax Act and the act concerning the Guaranteed Income Supplement? There are people who are still very alert, who are 68 years old, for example, and who receive the Guaranteed Income Supplement. But what would be the appeal for them? Their supplement would be cut off. For other people, it would be the employment insurance benefits. Would there be some way of considering that aspect?

I have other questions.

You'll probably have 40 seconds to answer, which is very impolite on the part of the Chair, who is depriving witnesses of the opportunity to respond, but that's another matter.

In the first paragraph on page 9, you say the following: Our evaluations, while generally positive, point to a number of areas in need of either legislative or administrative improvements. In some cases, we are in the process of developing recommendations to address issues raised by the evaluations. In other cases, we are exploring what can be accomplished administratively.

I understand that the last part of the paragraph concerns the administrative aspect. However, I would like to know whether, when you talk about recommendations for solving the problems raised, that means you are currently considering draft amendments to improve the act.

Furthermore, you are concerned by the decline in voter turnout. I'm convinced that it troubles you, as much as it troubles us by the way, to see that fewer and fewer of our fellow citizens are interested in politics. I'm going to ask you the question once again: have you considered holding advance polling days on Sunday?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Will you allow an answer, or do you want us just to...? We'll have no time if we don't allow an answer.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Okay. I can come in on the third or fourth round, no problem.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Okay. You can answer, Mr. Mayrand.

[Marc Mayrand]

On the question of the tariff, of remuneration for election workers, we conducted an analysis, proposing adjustments to at least make the tariff competitive with that of other electoral organizations in the country.

However, after consulting with Treasury Board, we realized that the act, which restricts spending, has an impact and includes election workers. As a result of that restriction, we won't be able to grant an increase in the next two years. Upon the expiry of that act, we'll see what the situation is. Obviously, Elections Canada wants to find a way to give election workers adequate compensation for their work.

As to the Guaranteed Income Supplement, which is lowered as a result of the work people do on election day, that's a question that requires legislative amendments. I'm going to raise it in my recommendations report, which will be tabled during the year.

To avoid all confusion, between now and the spring, I will be tabling a report in Parliament containing a number of recommendations for amending and improving the act and facilitating its administration. In the meantime, when we can do things administratively, we try to put them forward. I noted a few this morning and others are on the way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Monsieur Mayrand, do we know when we will have that statutory report?

[Marc Mayrand]

It will be in the spring. There were some delays. Earlier I indicated that it would be in December. Over the summer we released 25 discussion papers to political parties to get their feedback. Given what happened in August and September, I think everybody was busy and was focusing on other things. So I think we will need until the spring to come back to Parliament.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We very much look forward to that statutory report.

Monsieur Godin, do you have anything short on this one?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Do I have five minutes?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Sure. I'm trying to get everybody in today.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The student vote—at the universities—is a concern. A turn-out rate of 58% is not a record; we're not headed in the right direction. We have to be sensitive to that. We say we want our young people to vote, but we have to give them access to the vote.

During the 2008 election, the newspaper L'Acadie Nouvelle published an article on a person from the Université de Moncton who had had trouble going to vote. First of all, young people aren't all that interested in voting. If, in addition, we cause problems for them, we're off to a bad start. If, for example, we recognize the address of a student who attends the University of Ottawa, that mustn't prevent him from voting, if he comes from another riding. That person has simply left home to go and vote. If we want to obtain information on that person, we have to find his or her address, but there the residence has to... That person hasn't moved away forever, and that's to be hoped. In any case, the cities or ridings that have a university would benefit from the fact that there are more people who vote. Those people aren't there permanently. I don't know whether I'm making myself understood.

[Marc Mayrand]

Yes. I simply want to point out that, in the case of students, the act provides that they can elect their place of residence. That can be their usual permanent residence or, if they don't really intend to return to their family residence, they may elect residence in Ottawa. For example, it may be a person from Moncton who has come to study in Ottawa and who doesn't necessarily intend to return to Moncton after university. That person can vote in the Ottawa riding; the act provides for that.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Is it different for a soldier at National Defence?

[Marc Mayrand]

It's different. There is a special provision for students.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

As not all cities have universities, something particular could be provided for students.