Evidence of meeting #49 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was costs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
If you can't review the documents, how do you know whether or not they should be made public?
12:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
First of all, that is why I am advocating that I should be authorized to review them. It's an area for legislative reform, but the situation is now such that the Babcock ruling is part of the caselaw. There is also the ruling in the Ethyl case.
The court gave details as to the information the government must provide when the Privy Council certifies that something is a Cabinet confidence. We proceed in that manner in our own investigations—in other words, we base ourselves on what the Supreme Court said in its ruling as to what the government must provide. That is the current state of the law. I cannot do something that is not in the law. I would like the law to be changed but as long as it isn't, I have to operate based on the current legal framework.
Here we have a table showing the document, the name, the title, the date and asking the government to state which provision of the Act applies—in other words, which part of section 69 and what kind of document is involved. That is part of our investigation. Even in cases where we do not review the documents, in 24% of cases over the last five years, we have noted that the documents were not Cabinet confidences.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Do you believe that having access to documents in order to make proper decisions is part of a proper democracy?
12:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
In my opinion, yes. That's why we talk about government transparency and open government. I think that—
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
That is what the Conservatives were elected on in 2006, on transparency and on change.
How long have you held the position of Information Commissioner?
12:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Like Mr. Walsh, it feels as though it's been 20 years.
12:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
It's been almost a year.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Do you find it it's taking longer than previously to respond to access to information requests? You said you have a lot of experience. We won't get into how many years may be involved, but you do say you have a lot of experience. Do you find that it's taking longer to obtain information now than previously?
12:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I believe the government's statistics confirm that it is indeed taking longer than before. And that does not only go back to the point at which the Conservative government took office. This is a trend that has been observed for a number of years now. I often cite these statistics: in 2002-2003, we answered 69% of requests in 30 days, as provided for by the Act, whereas we are now at 56%. We are seeing a constant decline. It goes down by 1% or 2% every year. We have not yet seen any change in that—
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
A little earlier, you said that there were practically no costs associated with this and that people should not have to pay for information about pension funds, for example. It costs a lot of money, but fees are still charged.
12:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I did not say there were no costs. There are.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I mean that our decisions should not be based on the fact that there is a cost attached. We should have access to the information even if there is a cost.
12:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
That is what I believe.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Earlier, my Conservative colleague, Mr. Albrecht, said there are going to be changes in that regard. You read the newspapers just as I do. Do you think it's not getting rid of the $5 fee that will end up being most costly? Do you not think that imposing much higher fees will actually mean that ordinary citizens will no longer turn to the Office of the Information Commissioner? It seems that the government finds it tiresome to have to give people information. So now, it has found something new. It says it costs $5, and that's ridiculous. It's going to charge a hefty fee and ordinary citizens will stop making access to information requests.
Do you not think it sends the wrong message to tell people the fee isn't high enough and we're going to raise it, when the fact is that we want information and the government is not interested in providing it? Don't you think this will have the opposite effect and that people will find it too expensive and won't bother making a request? Are you concerned?
12:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I can't really comment on what the government is intending to do in that respect because I was not consulted. I am not aware of any of the details. To be perfectly frank, as Information Commissioner, I would be very sorry to see any increase in the cost of access to information, when the international trend is exactly the opposite.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
You say that the international trend is the opposite. That means that the international trend is to believe in democracy. People say that representatives should be elected and be accountable to the people. We see in the news everything that is going on in other countries. People don't want dictatorship. They want transparency. They want elected representatives to work for them. But they say that if people want information, it's going to cost them more. At the same time, they are saying they don't want to give out that information. That is a strange message to be sending if the international trend is moving in the opposite direction.
12:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
As I said, I cannot comment on what the government is intending to do because I have no details in that regard. The international trend is different, because the Internet really facilitates the whole process.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
xxxYou have no information about the government's intentions, but if it decides to increase fees for access to information, what is going to happen? That's only “if” the government decides to increase the fee. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride, as they say. If the decision is made to increase the fees to access information, do you think that could have a negative impact?
12:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
In my opinion, increasing fees for access to information to $5 or more is not a good public policy decision. How high will it go? How much will it cost to write a cheque to the government?
I think there are other ways of doing things if we want to have some control over the way requests are made or the number of requests.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
It would cost less if the government provided the information immediately or within a reasonable timeframe.
12:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
This comes back to your colleague's question. The Access to Information Act does not say that you have to disclose every piece of information to everybody all the time. There are certain legitimate exceptions. And they are necessary, because there has to be protection for personal information, national security—
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
They talk about public safety but in my opinion, the price of a plane is not a major public safety issue.
12:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Every case is different.
