Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2013

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Yes, that's good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'm with you, and I'm also with Mr. Reid that we need to do it consistently the same way, so that when we're looking at what's being proposed and what's being asked for by members, it's the same thing each time we're looking at it.

Mr. Merrifield, this is correct in your mind, yellow being the last report from the election redistribution commission and grey being what the members of Parliament are suggesting.

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Yes. Absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Mr. Lukiwski, I'll give you your time starting now.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Well done, Chair. I think we've got her. I think I figured it out now.

Based on what you're saying, Rob, I don't have many questions, but let's talk about population variance. You say in your proposal it would improve the population variance?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

The population variance in Yellowhead would be up about 5.25%, which is tolerable if you want to look at it that way.

The largest variances would be the two large geographic ridings of the north. Because of the geographic size of those, if you're looking as a member of Parliament at the functionality of dealing with them, fewer numbers make perfect sense.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Sure. That is just because of the large land mass.

I guess I'm asking what changed between the boundaries commission proposal and your proposal in terms of population variance. Does Yellowhead become less populated or more populated?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

It's a little bit more populated, but it's a little more than 5% difference, which is tolerable.

The major difference between theirs and ours would be these two large ones. This is 11% under and this is about 11% under, roughly.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Sure, but that's offset by the fact that the geographic land mass is so large.

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Exactly. I think you'll see that Chris Warkentin's riding, which is the Grande Prairie one, is about 3% under. That's this one there.

Mine would be about 5% over, and I think Red Deer—Wolf Creek is about 4% over. Edmonton—Wetaskiwin is about 4% over, and Lakeland is 2.9% over. So they're all within very tolerable or acceptable variances.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Thank you.

Just to reiterate, and I believe you went over this in your presentation, so I apologize if we're tilling old ground, but you say you have checked with both the members of Parliament whose constituencies would be affected by these changes you're recommending and all the other communities that would be affected by these, and everyone has signed off that this is a reasonable proposal, to your knowledge?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

The ones who might not like it, because we're all animals of habit, will be perhaps on the south side of Yellowhead, which would incorporate Rocky Mountain House. The mayor has been vocal. They would like to associate more with Red Deer than Yellowhead.

I've been talking to Blaine Calkins, who represents that area now. He says they may not like it, but it's functional. This isn't an exact science, and there are arguments that could be made that it would be as rational as you can get as far as historical patterns and points of interest are concerned.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I think you're right; a lot of people in a lot of communities are probably creatures of habit. But do you think that anyone would consider this to be a deal-breaker, that under no circumstances would they accept it?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

No, not at all. In fact, if this map we're proposing were to come out right now, I think everybody that I know in our riding—the municipal leaders—would breathe a sigh of relief.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Okay.

Those are all the questions I have, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Cullen, go ahead.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Sorry, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I take it back.

Here’s the same question I ask of every witness: were the proposals you made here the same as those you made to the boundaries commission? Or did you appear before the boundaries commission?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Yes, I appeared before the boundaries commission. We didn't lay out a map; we laid out the intent of how difficult it would be to represent that northern area and the massive population in the Whitecourt-Barrhead-Westlock area. That's a large geographic area that the member of Parliament would likely win a nomination from. It would be very difficult to represent the north, and the north, I believe, would be underrepresented.

So we didn't lay out a map like this because we didn't go that far down the road of what they were thinking, but we did present it to them. It was a unified message they got—

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Even though you may not have given them a map with the actual boundaries, did you verbally present to them these communities and whether they go north, south, or whatever?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Yes.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Why, then, did they come up with this map and not perhaps listen to your arguments?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

That's a very good question.

I believe they were seized more with the actual numbers. If you look at their maps, in Alberta there's very little variance in the numbers. We understand more the dynamics of historical relationships between communities, their patterns, and the communities of interest in those areas. It's maybe unfair for the commission to be asked to do that without that information, so I can understand why they came out with their maps. But I believe the process would be more complete with our input because we live in these communities and understand them. We understand the dynamics of those communities much better than they do, yet we understand their job and meeting their criteria. So this map accomplishes both.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Thank you.