Evidence of meeting #57 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was e-petitions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
That way, you're able to catch the Mickey Mouse's and other suspicious names on the list.
Thank you.
12:45 p.m.
Director, Parliamentary Proceedings Directorate, National Assembly of Quebec
Exactly.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
The driving force for us here seems to be that having e-petitions would ultimately allow Canadians from all over the country to participate. If we get 100,000 signatures, it would initiate a take-note debate.
Mr. Arsenault, I'm looking more at you for this, because I'm looking at the Quebec site and I must compliment those individuals. It really is consumer friendly. Even I can understand it. It's fairly straight-forward, looking at it. It seems to me, just going through this, that your petitions are not necessarily to acquire a minimum number in order to generate some sort of extra activity at the legislature. Is that a fair comment? Is it just another way in which you can submit petitions, generally speaking?
12:45 p.m.
Director, Parliamentary Proceedings Directorate, National Assembly of Quebec
That's right.
Unlike what the sponsor of motion M-428 proposed, in Quebec, the petition does not have to have a minimum number of signatures in order to be tabled in the legislature. And that applies to petitions in both paper and electronic form. It would even be possible for a petition with just one signature to be tabled in the legislature.
There is a difference, however. Our rules dictate that, in order for a petition to be studied by a committee, a majority of the members in each parliamentary group must agree. In other words, every parliamentary group must consent. But a petition does not have to have a minimum number of signatures in order to be tabled.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
I notice in going through it that it really varies in terms of the number of signatures. You have one that has five signatures on it. You have another one that has 30,940 signatures on it. The number of signatures really doesn't count in terms of having it go forward. Your legislators, as you put it, have to have a vote on it.
The other thing I noticed is the date of opening for signing versus the end of the signing period. How do you determine if it's going to be for three months or six months?
12:45 p.m.
Director, Parliamentary Proceedings Directorate, National Assembly of Quebec
The individual who initiates the petition and the sponsoring member will notify the secretary general of the period during which they would like the petition to be posted online. The rules set out a minimum time limit of one week—which never happens—and a maximum time limit of three months. Other than that, it is up to the petitioner and member, together, to decide on a timeframe.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Okay.
Is there any role for other legislators to play? For example, if I say I like a petition and I'm going to sponsor it, how does someone across the way or other MLAs—I think they're MNAs in Quebec—get engaged in a petition that they might like? Can they submit the same petition online? Is there a way for them to get engaged in the process?
12:45 p.m.
Director, Parliamentary Proceedings Directorate, National Assembly of Quebec
A second petition cannot be posted online while the first is still posted. The period during which the first petition is posted must have ended before the second petition can be submitted. A petition that is scrupulously identical has occasionally been submitted once the online posting period of the first petition has ended.
If a second MNA is interested in the contents of the petition and wants to make a contribution, on a practical level, the MNA can intervene after the petition is tabled. The MNA can ask the relevant committee to hold a deliberative meeting to decide whether to examine the petition. That is when the member can intervene in favour of the petition and let the committee know that he or she would like it to examine the petition.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Mr. Mercer, is yours of a similar nature to what we've been talking about, where it's very general, all petitions, and there is no minimum or maximum number of signatures in order to have an MLA initiate bringing it forward?
12:50 p.m.
Clerk of the Legislative Assembly, Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories
Yes, it's very similar. Our minimum number is actually three, but I think that's just a matter of semantics more than anything.
What we have tried to do with our e-petition system is to have the procedure unchanged from a written petition. It's exactly the same process, only a different way of doing it. We do not have a system similar to what's being proposed in the House of Commons, where if there's a certain threshold of signatures, then a different process takes place. The process that takes place is the same regardless of the number, so long as that number is greater than three.
Typically what happens is that the petition is tabled. It's referred to a particular ministry, and the minister then responds to the petition within 60 days. That response is then tabled in the House.
However, any member, as I mentioned earlier, can give notice and have a debate on a particular petition by way of a motion, either in the standing committee or later in the regular orders of the day for the House.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
On that point, Mr. Arsenault, how does one initiate it? Is it just one member who would also then bring it to a potential vote, asking it to go to a committee? How does that work?
12:50 p.m.
Director, Parliamentary Proceedings Directorate, National Assembly of Quebec
A vote is held, but not in the Chamber. Once the petition has been tabled, the Chamber does not decide whether a committee will examine it or not, even though that would be possible procedurally speaking. Practically, however, the committee meets and votes on whether it will examine the petition. According to our rules, a majority of the members from each parliamentary group must agree. So it is not just a majority decision. Let's say we had a majority government. It would not have the power to impose its decision; instead, it would need the consent of opposition members on the committee.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
I would make the assumption that the same principles and rules apply for paper petitions as for e-petitions.
Mr. Wudrick, in regard to the association, when you make reference to accountability—and I think about the take-note debate—one of the suggestions deals with the situation where we get 100,000 signatures plus. That's a lot of Canadians putting their names to a particular issue.
Is a take-note debate the only thing we could be talking about, or is that something we could maybe take to a committee, where a committee would be mandated to look at it and possibly have witnesses and things of this nature?
Do you have any thoughts in regard to what should happen when you get 100,000 people signing a petition?
12:50 p.m.
Federal Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation
That's certainly open to debate.
Our real concern was that by having the requirement of a certain threshold number of MPs to sponsor, you could end up with the awkward situation where you have hundreds of thousands of people and nothing being done.
From where we sit, we'd certainly be open to it being referred to committee or being dealt with in some other way, as long as the door wasn't simply shut because they didn't meet the threshold of the MP sponsors.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Finally, Mr. Wudrick, I've been listening to Mr. Arsenault and Mr. Mercer talk about what happens in the respective legislatures where e-petitions are almost as normal as paper petitions. Here we're talking about 100,000 signatures.
What are your thoughts? I suspect you would support what's happening in those two jurisdictions. Would you not see this as a positive thing for Ottawa to allow for e-petitions generally speaking?
12:50 p.m.
Federal Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation
Absolutely. I think that the experiences both of colleagues at the table here and then also around the world.... There are many other jurisdictions that have implemented this. We think it's a simple matter of translating a principle that everyone accepts into the 21st century.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you for coming today.
I'm sorry that we had to compress our time, but I do thank you. A lot of information came from the two of you. If you think of other things that will help us with this program that you could put in writing and send to us, thoughts or things that you ran into, by all means, please do so. This committee has some work to do in a fairly short order on this.
Committee members, there is a quick piece of committee business.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
It's a budget for this study, so I think I can do it in public.
I have to leave right at one o'clock, so I'm trying to make sure that this happens and that I never have to go to liaison committee again.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
It was in camera, so I can't discuss how painful it truly was.
The request for the project budget for the study of Bill C-428 is being distributed right now. It explains that we'll be doing a fair bit of video conferencing, along with the witnesses we've already had.
We're asking for a budget of funds in order to complete this study.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you very much.
Is there anything else for the good of this committee today?
Adjournment has been moved.
The meeting is adjourned.
