Evidence of meeting #10 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was senate.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Daniel Jutras  Federal Member, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Good morning. This meeting is meeting number 10 of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs for the First Session of the 42nd Parliament.

This meeting is being held in public and is televised. Today in the first hour of our meeting we continue our examination of federal appointees to the Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments, pursuant to Standing Order 110 and 111.

In the second hour we will consider committee business, and that will be chaired by Mr. Blake Richards.

I remind members that in accordance with the Standing Orders of the House of Commons, this committee's role is limited to an examination of the qualifications and competence of the appointee to perform the duties of the post to which he or she has been appointed. Members may also refer to pages 1011-13 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice by O'Brien and Bosc.

Our witness this morning is Professor Daniel Jutras, who is appearing by video conference from Montreal.

Professor Jutras, you have up to 10 minutes for an opening statement, and then we will proceed to questions from committee members.

I don't know if you can see us, but the floor is yours if you can hear me.

11 a.m.

Professor Daniel Jutras Federal Member, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

I can hear you and I can see a general view of the room.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm grateful for the opportunity to appear before your committee. If I may, as you indicated, I would like to take maybe five or ten minutes to offer a brief opening statement.

I understand that the objective of your committee is to assess my qualifications and competence. I would like to focus on that, if I may.

As you have indicated, this meeting is being held to assess the contribution I can make to the work of the Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments based on a review of my career and qualifications. I know you have my resumé in hand, but I would first like to take a moment to describe my career path to date.

I completed my studies in law at the University of Montreal and graduate studies in constitutional law at Harvard University in the mid-1980s. I have been a lawyer and member of the Quebec bar since 1984. I have also been a professor at McGill University's faculty of law for nearly 32 years.

My field of expertise is civil procedure, private law, and comparative law, but as you have also seen on reading my resumé, I have a long-standing interest in constitutional law. I was able to pursue this interest most recently when the Supreme Court of Canada appointed me to serve as amicus curiae, a friend of the court, in the context of the Senate reference and the constitutional amendment process.

In addition, from 2002 to 2005, I took leave from McGill University to act as Executive Legal Officer to the Supreme Court of Canada in the office of Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin. My task was to assist her in all her duties as justice and chief justice, except, of course, judgment drafting, which was her responsibility.

For example, outside the court, I was responsible for relations with the Canadian Judicial Council and the National Judicial Institute, which is the training body for federally appointed judges. Within the court, my responsibilities related to communications, media relations, management of the Law Clerk Program, for clerks appointed as research assistants to the court, and relations between the court, judges, and the various operational services of the court.

If you like, I'd be happy to answer questions on all of the elements of my CV which you have before you. I would like, before handing the floor back to you, to take a moment to try to connect my profile qualifications and competence to what I think might be helpful to the advisory board, and identify what I think those qualities might be.

It seems to me that key qualities to contribute to the work of the committee begin with a strong reputation of personal integrity, a reputation of sound judgment, and a reputation of absolute discretion. I want to underline that much of the work, in fact all of the work, I did with Chief Justice McLachlin and her colleagues at the Supreme Court of Canada, and within the Canadian Judicial Council as well, involved extraordinary confidentiality, significant confidentiality, and required a demonstration of sound judgment. And I don't think I would have been appointed to this position without a very strong reputation for personal integrity.

I point out that I think I have the respect of my peers and colleagues. I currently am the dean of the faculty of law at McGill and I'm also chair of the Council of Canadian Law Deans, and recently received the distinction of Advocatus Emeritus, which is awarded by the Quebec bar to distinguished members of the profession.

The second, I would say, and important qualification is independence and non-partisanship. I am not a member of any political party, nor am I a militant and haven't been.

Third, I think it's really critical to the work of the advisory board that its members have some experience with the evaluation of files, the ability to read CVs and letters of recommendation, to do so in both languages, to work effectively in a group in a collaborative manner, and I have to say this is pretty much my daily bread as dean. The work of the dean requires extensive participation and evaluation of confidential application files and candidacies, as well as work in groups and those kinds of assessments.

Finally, I would say it's useful to the work of the committee that some of its members, and ideally many of its members, have some understanding of the constitutional architecture of Canada, the role of the Senate, the legislative process at the federal level. The work I did in the Senate reference before the Supreme Court as amicus curiae obviously focused primarily on the amendment procedures, but in preparation for my oral argument and written briefs, I read just about everything that has been written in law and in political science about the Senate.

So even though the Senate was not my field of expertise at the time, and I think, to be fair, is not yet my field of expertise, I can fairly say that I have a significant interest in the Senate and parliamentary proceedings, and a good enough knowledge, I hope, to contribute significantly to the work of the advisory board.

With this, Mr. Chair, I'd be happy to answer questions, and I hand the floor back to you.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you, Mr. Jutras.

On this committee, we have a round of four different people asking you questions for seven minutes each. Then in the next round, people will have five minutes each. The time limit includes both questions and answers, so if they ask a one-minute question and your answer takes six minutes, they don't get to ask you any more questions.

I just wanted to let you know how it works here and that we're tight on the timelines so that every committee member gets a chance to ask you questions.

We'll start with Anita Vandenbeld.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Thank you, Professor Jutras, for being here today. You've obviously had a very distinguished legal career, and as you mentioned in your remarks, sound judgment and independence are things that would be very important in this position.

I wonder if you could elaborate a little bit on your background in law. Also, you mentioned that in your role as dean you do have to evaluate CVs, letters of recommendation. Could you give us more information about how you do that and how you work collaboratively in doing that?

11:05 a.m.

Prof. Daniel Jutras

Okay. I think the work in law is perhaps less relevant to the work of the committee than the second aspect of your question is, so let me be as brief as I can on the legal dimension.

My expertise, as I said, is in private law, comparative law, law of contracts, civil procedure, and law of wrongdoing, which is kind of remote from the conversation that we're having today, but nonetheless, as I mentioned, I have a significant interest in constitutional law. This was the focus of my graduate studies at Harvard Law School. I've kept up to date as much as I could, and also worked in some depth in constitutional law, in particular in my three years at the Supreme Court with Chief Justice McLachlin.

Very briefly, on the work of the dean and the ways in which this involves consideration of files, there are multiple aspects of academic life that require assessment of files, everything from admission of students to the process of promotion of professors and assessment of external institutions. Over the past seven years that I've been dean, I've assessed countless files with regard to promotion within my own faculty as well as several files from outside of my faculty. I've also done assessments and written letters of recommendation in a variety of contexts, both academic and professional. These were either to recommend university promotions and awards or to give professional recognition through such things as awarding the distinction of Advocatus Emeritus.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

I see that you won the Queen Elizabeth medal in 2013. Can you tell us what that was for?

11:10 a.m.

Prof. Daniel Jutras

I think the medal, if I'm correct in this, is awarded to about 60,000 Canadians, which is a significant number of people, and I'm just one of 60,000. So I don't want to play this up too much, although I'm very proud of this. I think it was a recognition of significant contributions in the field of law and in academic life as well.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

You have a number of transferable skills, in addition to your legal background and your knowledge of the constitutional law, in terms of being able to bring people together, being able to assess, being able to judge different qualifications of various people. You spoke of the fact that, in addition to being dean of your faculty, you're part of a council of deans.

11:10 a.m.

Prof. Daniel Jutras

Yes, indeed. All of the law deans in Canada gather around a table, which is intended to address preoccupations and concerns of the deans. I'm also the spokesperson for the Council of Canadian Law Deans. For the past two years I've been the elected chair of this particular council of all deans of faculties in schools of law in Canada.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

You've been quite respected by your peers in doing that. Have you worked collaboratively? Could you talk about the collaborative work you've done?

11:10 a.m.

Prof. Daniel Jutras

I do hope I'm respected. We work collaboratively, indeed. To give you an example, yesterday we worked together through email on drafting a shared statement on the faculties' response to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's call to action. That requires quite a bit of collaboration and consensus. There are over 20 law schools in Canada, and we all have to agree on the text of this document, so indeed it requires quite a bit of consensus and collaborative work.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

I see you've done a significant amount of work with the Supreme Court, including being personal secretary to Justice McLachlin. What do you see as potential transferable skills in terms of the work that you've done in the Supreme Court?

11:10 a.m.

Prof. Daniel Jutras

The job of the executive legal officer is actually to be of assistance to the Chief Justice in whatever needs she may have. The Chief Justice, as you know, is an enormously busy person who has multiple responsibilities. In addition to her duties as a judge, she must run the court in operational terms as well as in collegial terms. She is the chair of the Canadian Judicial Council, which is the body that is made up of all chief justices of Canada and has responsibilities for all matters that are of significance to the judiciary. She also chairs the National Judicial Institute, which is, as I mentioned, the body that provides training to federal judges.

I think the transferable skills there are twofold. First, in this job, one has to be absolutely aware of the strict confidentiality of everything that happens within the institution. Of course, as you can imagine, being on the right-hand side of the Chief Justice in all of her responsibilities, sitting in an office right next to hers, helping her deal with the duties that I've just outlined, I was made aware of a number of things that had to be kept absolutely confidential. I think this is a transferable skill here, obviously given the significance of the process that we're engaged in and the need to preserve the privacy of the applicants and the confidentiality of the process.

The other dimension is that the Supreme Court is a very important institution in Canadian life and in our constitutional architecture. I think working in there, seeing the collegiality of the court and the way in which the court operates, gives me a pretty good idea of the ways in which individuals engaged in public life need to behave. I think I can apply that kind of understanding to my assessment of the files that we have before us.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Sound judgment, discretion, independence: are there other qualities you see that you have which you would be able to bring to this position?

11:15 a.m.

Prof. Daniel Jutras

No, I think that would sum it up.

I think the one you didn't mention is my familiarity with the constitutional role and structure of the Senate and its place in the Canadian government. Again, I don't want to claim expertise in this area. This is a very, very complex field. There are many legal experts in Canada who know much more about the Senate than I do. But the work I did for the reference I think gave me a sound preparation for this.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you very much, Ms. Vandenbeld.

Mr. Scott Reid is the next questioner.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Professor Jutras, thank you very much. While you are a very accomplished person, I suspect you're probably somewhat socially uncomfortable reading off your resumé as this committee requires. I can appreciate the somewhat awkward position that puts you in. Being accomplished does not mean one is an egomaniac.

The first question I want to ask you, just relating to today's subject matter, is whether or not you had the chance to watch the testimony of Minister Monsef last night before the Senate committee. It dealt to some degree with your mandate.

11:15 a.m.

Prof. Daniel Jutras

I saw the first 20 minutes. I had a meeting after that, so I missed the rest. I heard the presentations of both ministers and I think the first two or three questions.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

It came out very early in the responses—in fact it may have been in Dominic LeBlanc's opening remarks—that you required some extra time in order to complete your submissions, and that they have not yet been made. Is that in fact the case, and do you have a deadline in mind of when you'd be making your submission to the Prime Minister?

11:15 a.m.

Prof. Daniel Jutras

I'm not aware of—

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Sorry, hold on a second.

We have a point of order from Mr. Chan.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

The purpose of this examination today, Mr. Chair, is to look at the competency and the qualifications of the nominee. I'm not quite sure of the relevance of the questioning of Mr. Reid at this time, and whether in fact it is in order.

Taking into account, Mr. Chair, that you had provided some direction to the committee members at the beginning of this examination, I would again suggest that the line of questioning from Mr. Reid at this time is out of order.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Mr. Reid.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Mr. Chair, in response to that point of order, I will just observe that what is appropriate is if you think something is out of order then inform the witness that in your judgment, it's not necessary for them...that if they choose not to respond, it's up to their discretion.

I'll mention further that the witness has a very impressive record of having dealt with issues that require discretion. The witness is better qualified than anybody in this room to determine whether or not a question that one of us asks has the effect of putting him in a position of being unable to answer without violating his mandate.

I think that is the appropriate course of action. Actually not allowing the witness to answer and not allowing me to ask would be an inappropriate use of discretion.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

I'm going to proceed that way for the moment. To remind you of what the committee is allowed to do, I'm going to reread a passage:

The committee's role is limited to an examination of the qualifications and competence of the appointee to perform the duties of the post to which he or she has been appointed.

Based on that, you can choose or not choose to answer that question.