Evidence of meeting #26 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sav Dhaliwal  Councillor, City of Burnaby
Diana Mumford  Trustee, Burnaby School District
Karen Roth  Public Health Nurse, Burnaby Health Promotion and Prevention, Fraser Health
Basil Luksun  Director, Planning and Building, City of Burnaby
Rev. Roger Ébacher  Chairman (Archbisbop of Gatineau), Episcopal Commission for Social Affairs, Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops
Rev. Brendan M. O'Brien  (Archbishop of St. John's), Episcopal Commission for Social Affairs, Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Good morning, everyone. Welcome.

On behalf of our committee, I want to welcome witnesses from the City of Burnaby, the Burnaby School District, and Fraser Health who are here this morning. It's hard to believe that you made it, with the weather conditions in British Columbia these days.

We have an hour until 10 o'clock, when another group joins us here. So we'll have to be fairly on schedule, because we have a committee that comes in here at 11 o'clock as well.

You have an hour, and I invite you to make your opening statements. I'm sure the committee will have some questions or discussions they want to get into a bit later. Maybe you could introduce yourselves and then take off with your opening comments.

Thank you.

9 a.m.

Sav Dhaliwal Councillor, City of Burnaby

Bonjour, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

First, on behalf of the City of Burnaby, I would like to thank you for inviting us to address your committee.

I am Sav Dhaliwal, a councillor of the City of Burnaby.

9 a.m.

Diana Mumford Trustee, Burnaby School District

I am Diana Mumford, a school trustee in the Burnaby district.

9 a.m.

Karen Roth Public Health Nurse, Burnaby Health Promotion and Prevention, Fraser Health

I am Karen Roth, a public health nurse in the Fraser Health Authority.

9 a.m.

Basil Luksun Director, Planning and Building, City of Burnaby

Good morning. I am Basil Luksun, the director of building and planning for the City of Burnaby.

9 a.m.

Councillor, City of Burnaby

Sav Dhaliwal

Once again, thank you. I'm very thankful for the opportunity to speak with you this morning.

After hearing from Basil Luksun and me, you will hear two separate but very related presentations: one from Diana Mumford, a school trustee in Burnaby, and the other from Karen Roth, a community health nurse with our regional health authority, who just stepped off the airplane. They will give you more specific information about the challenges they are facing in serving refugees and immigrants in the health and education fields.

In my remarks I'll set the stage for our collective presentations. By citing the Burnaby experience, I intend to reveal how suburban municipalities have been affected by rapid increases in refugee and immigrant populations. I will also discuss an example of how we have tried to respond to the increases. Specifically, I'll talk about our multiservice health facility, a community-driven proposal for coordinating and enhancing service delivery for refugees and immigrants in Burnaby and adjacent municipalities.

Before talking about the Burnaby situation, I would like to state the obvious. Canada is a land of immigrants. We are admired internationally for our multicultural policies and proactive approaches to welcoming immigrants and respecting individuals and cultural diversity.

Indeed, Basil and I have experienced first hand the welcoming and generosity of our new home country. We both came to Canada with basically a suitcase and a few dollars in our pockets. We know only too well the importance of having appropriate supports in place to help newcomers adapt and contribute to Canada and the communities in which they live.

Burnaby is part of the greater Vancouver area and is situated immediately east of and adjacent to Vancouver. It's the third-largest city in British Columbia, with a population of just over 200,000 people. In 2001, nearly half of Burnaby's population consisted of immigrants. This is in marked contrast to 1986, when only 25% of the population were immigrants. Further, in 2001, 28% of Burnaby residents spoke a language other than English at home. Also germane to this meeting, in recent years the city has been receiving over one-third of all government-assisted refugees arriving in B.C. The main source countries for these refugees include Afghanistan, Sudan, Iran, and Indonesia. These refugees present many challenges to our city and to the overall service delivery system.

Some of the key challenges we have seen relate to these refugees' low incomes, limited English language and literacy skills, health concerns, and emotional and physical trauma. In short, these refugees face enormous obstacles as they try to adapt to their new surroundings. Without appropriate support and understanding, their chances of success are severely compromised. This results in hardships for the individuals, while also hindering our efforts to maintain a cohesive, harmonious community. We cannot let this happen.

We believe that every refugee and immigrant has the potential to thrive and contribute to the betterment of our community and our country. In Burnaby, we want to harness and develop that potential. While we have an excellent array of community service providers in the city, they are stretched extremely thin and lack the funding or resources to adequately respond to the increasing needs in the community. It's our firm belief that the provision of sufficient resources and support for our service delivery system would be a sound investment in our collective future.

In time, our citizens, our communities, and our nation would reap the benefit of such investments. We should also be able to avoid the socially and financially costly consequences of a segregated society, as evidenced in France last year.

With the foregoing as context, I will briefly describe our multiservice hub proposal, a community-driven model aimed at helping us to respond better to the needs of our increasing immigrant and refugee population.

I believe that the committee clerk has provided you with the copies of a council report entitled “Federal Funding Proposal for Multi-Service Hub Facility in Edmonds”. In the time available, I won't be able to speak at length about the proposal. I'll just touch on some key points.

The proposed facility is to be located in the Edmonds area, in the southeast part of Burnaby, which has a large concentration of immigrants and refugees.

The City of Burnaby is pursuing significant upgrades to civic infrastructure in the area. A new firehall was recently constructed, and a new library will be built next year. In addition, we are currently in the design stage for a new recreation centre complex. These are all within a short walk of the proposed multi-service hub facility.

In the midst of these initiatives, extensive consultation was conducted among community members and service providers in the area. They asked what else could be done, and the multi-service hub facility emerged. It represents a collective vision of how best to meet the needs of the refugees and the immigrant population while at the same time helping to build the community and the city.

The proposal involves the establishment of a 30,000-square-foot multi-service facility on city-owned land. It is adjacent to a community school and a city-owned building that accommodates a range of community agencies.

The concept is to provide a welcoming place in which immigrants and refugees can meet, obtain services, and participate in programs. In essence, it will be a one-stop resource, one that's based on a collaborate model and offers a rich and coordinated range of needed programs and services.

A few of the many programs and services that would be offered from the hub include language and literacy classes; settlement services; public health programs; family, sport, and counselling services; youth services; and community outreach.

In addition to serving immigrants and refugees, the hub would also be a welcome community resource for the broader community. The aim is to promote community cohesion and ensure that we don't further isolate our immigrant and refugee populations. We believe that this facility will be a model for communities facing similar challenges.

The city is proposing to contribute the land for the facility with an estimated value of $2 million. We would be looking to the senior governments to provide the capital funding for construction. We would also be looking to the senior governments and non-profit agencies to deliver the services and programs from the facility.

Burnaby city council endorsed the proposal this January. We approached the federal and provincial governments for support. While acknowledging the merits and innovation of the proposal, the message we received was consistent: no capital funding programs are available for development of the hub facility. Therefore, we are currently at an impasse. We have an abundance of goodwill, and the city has committed all that is within our means, but there are no serious prospects for funding. In the meantime, the challenges faced by our refugee and immigrant populations continue unabated.

To conclude, I would like to thank you once again for the opportunity to speak before you today. I would like to leave you with three messages. One, suburban municipalities face very real challenges in trying to accommodate and meet the needs of refugee and immigrant populations. Two, despite a limited social service mandate, Burnaby has come to the table with innovative, viable opinions and options to help meet the needs of our immigrant and refugee communities. Third, we can't do it alone.

On behalf of the City of Burnaby, I strongly urge you to recommend that the federal government establish a capital funding program that will support a creative partnership initiative such as our proposed multi-service hub facility. By so doing, the government would not only be helping our refugee and immigrant communities, it would also be helping the broader community, as well as facilitating the establishment of a stronger, more cohesive, and vibrant Canada.

We are a suburban municipality with half of our population comprised of immigrants. Further, over a third of the government-assisted refugees arriving in B.C. move to our city.

We welcome immigrants and refugees to our community. We believe these people have the potential to make a positive contribution both to Burnaby and Canada. However, they need help and support as they prepare to make their contributions. We ask for your leadership, collaboration, and resources as we collectively help these people on the road to full and prosperous lives as contributing members of society.

Thank you.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

We will move now to Ms. Mumford.

9:10 a.m.

Trustee, Burnaby School District

Diana Mumford

Good morning.

I am pleased to be able to address the committee on behalf of the Burnaby Board of School Trustees and to speak to you about some of the challenges we face in meeting the educational and social needs of our new student citizens.

The Burnaby School District has experienced many changes in the past two decades in direct relation to immigration patterns and trends. Approximately 20% of our student population currently receives English as a second language support and over 50% of our community has a first language other than English.

In the past few years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of refugee families arriving in our community. Currently, Burnaby receives 50% of all government-assisted refugees destined for B.C.

We believe school districts play a key role in helping immigrant and refugee students develop the fundamental skills and knowledge required to be successful in Canada. Although school districts are only funded to provide educational services to immigrant and refugee students, we are also involved in a wide range of settlement needs and issues for children and families for which there is no funding support.

As already indicated, the pattern of immigration to Bumaby has changed quite significantly. As mentioned by Councillor Dhaliwal, the mix and the countries of origin are now very different. According to a recent Immigrant Settlement Services report, 33% of the 2,444 refugees arriving in B.C. between January 2003 and December 2005 were school-aged, that is, between five and 19 years of age. In terms of place of origin, approximately 33% were from Afghanistan, 31% were from East Africa, and 20% were from the Middle East.

Currently, federal Immigration officials appear to focus almost exclusively on the head of the household in making immigration decisions. Little attention appears to be paid to the needs of the other family members until they arrive in Canada. Consequently, we are discovering a significant increase in the number of immigrant and refugee students with special education needs and frequently with a multiplicity of learning challenges.

Furthermore, a number of refugee students suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome. While the actual number of students affected by PTSS may be small, the effects of this disorder on sufferers, fellow students, teachers, and the school community can be significant.

We are also experiencing a growth in the number of students whose families are still in survival mode, and this is especially true for many refugee families. It's difficult to learn when one is struggling to survive.

To compound the challenges facing our school district, immigration and refugee students continue to arrive in reasonably large numbers throughout the school year and have to be accommodated immediately upon arrival. However, students arriving in B.C. after September 30 are not counted for funding purposes, so their needs must be met without additional budget resources.

Our concerns can be summarized under four areas. The first would be the past educational experience. An increasing number of students and families arriving in Canada are illiterate in their first language and have little or no formal education. Youths arriving in their later teen years with less than grade three entry-level English language skills are less likely to develop the language required to graduate prior to turning 19 years of age, or to be prepared for suitable entry-level employment. This lack of formal education often complicates and delays educational progress and can lead to increased chances that these young people may be unemployable or destined for a life of under-employment.

Second are the family dynamics. Immigrant and refugee children often have more English language proficiency than their parents. This can result in a shift of controls within the family unit toward the child. This realigned balance of power can create long-term negative changes in response to legitimate authority.

Third are the shifts within cultural communities. There are dozens of cultural communities in British Columbia. Some are long-established, while others are relatively recent. Some tend to be insular, while others embrace integration. Some are relatively small, while others have grown to dramatic proportions in recent years, thereby affecting the communities where they live in substantial ways. The resulting social displacement is not a well-understood concept in any sector of the larger community, making this phenomenon extremely difficult to address in our schools.

Fourth is skill development and youth employment. Because of their age on arrival, limited English language ability, and/or other needs, a growing number of immigrant and refugee students run the risk of leaving our schools with inadequate skills to cope with even entry-level work opportunities, and they are unable to pursue post-secondary training opportunities. The lack of adequate education can lead to an increase in the percentage of unemployed or underemployed youth who are then further marginalized in society.

In summary, Canada's economy and democratic future will depend in large part on all levels of government working together to support the education, settlement, and integration of our immigrant and refugee youth.

The Burnaby School District understands the critical role that the public education system plays in preparing youth to be productive members of the workforce and to participate fully and actively in a democratic society.

I wish to be very clear: B.C. school districts, such as Burnaby, are up to the challenge. However, from our perspective, all levels of government must clearly recognize the direct relationship between successful settlement and successful education, the potential impacts of current democratic changes on both settlement and education, the need to respond to these changes in a collective proactive manner, and the need for resources and a collaborative effort to support successful settlement and foster a smooth transition from secondary school to productive employment and active participation in the Canadian workforce.

The multi-service hub facility proposed by the City of Burnaby is a dynamic, forward-thinking proposal that warrants government support. As well, there needs to be a public recognition of the significant role that school districts play in providing front line settlement services that help our immigrant and refugee youth become productive participative citizens. One tangible way of recognizing that role would be to provide school districts that enrol a significant number of refugee students with targeted federal funding to help support the fundamental needs of these new Canadian citizens.

Thank you for your time.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you. I appreciate your presentation.

Ms. Roth has something to say as well.

9:20 a.m.

Public Health Nurse, Burnaby Health Promotion and Prevention, Fraser Health

Karen Roth

With the introduction of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act in June 2002, significant changes were introduced to Canada's refugee resettlement program. Since the introduction of the act there has been a particular focus on refugees in urgent need of protection and resettlement in Canada. The introduction means that resettled refugees are no longer barred entry to Canada based on existing medical conditions.

The immediate outcome of the federal policy has resulted in an increase in special needs refugee clients with chronic and acute health needs who require long-term support in order to successfully integrate into Canadian society.

Although resettled refugees undergo a basic medical examination and a chest X-ray in the country of origin, their health status can change significantly during the waiting period prior to entry into Canada.

To give some context to this presentation, on arrival to British Columbia, the refugees stay at the Welcome House for 14 days, where they are given an orientation to life in Canada that includes assistance for the necessary applications and documentation forms, and help with finding housing. They are offered a primary health care screening at the Bridge Clinic.

The Bridge Clinic is a community health clinic that was established in September 1994 as—

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

I think we have a problem.

9:20 a.m.

Bloc

Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

Could you slow down the pace? They cannot translate.

9:20 a.m.

Public Health Nurse, Burnaby Health Promotion and Prevention, Fraser Health

Karen Roth

Sorry. I'm trying to get in as much information in five minutes as I can.

The Bridge Clinic is a community health clinic that was established in September 1994 as a partnership between British Columbia Multicultural Health Services and the Immigration Settlement Services Society in the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority. Its purpose is to address the primary health care needs of refugees with or without legal status.

Once the family leaves Welcome House and relocates into their new housing, there's insufficient support available to assist them to adapt and integrate to their new life. The members of many of the families I visited are often illiterate and innumerate in their own language, have no English skills, and suffer from the violence of war and traumas of many years of living in refugee camps.

It is usually overwhelming for them. Many need basic help dealing with modern life: toilets, electricity, shopping, money, parenting, and schooling. The list is endless. It is hard to know where to begin. I will limit my talk to specific challenges to refugees trying to access health services.

Since the IRPA, these primary health screens have detected an increase in refugees suffering from chronic diseases such as diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, HIV, and mental health conditions such as chronic depression and post-traumatic stress disorder.

At present, Fraser Health Authority is being faced with the challenge of providing primary care to this growing population. Many local physicians and walk-in clinics are unable to provide service to refugees with no English and complex medical and social conditions, resulting in the only access to primary care being the emergency department.

The situation for Burnaby is worsening, as the Bridge Clinic is no longer able to offer its service beyond the first three months of refugees' arrival, due to service demands and funding cuts. With the increasing complexity of medical conditions and necessity for multi-medical specialists to respond to these conditions, there is a resulting increase in the need for medical translators. Clients often fail to receive treatment for communicable diseases such as HIV, TB, malaria, and intestinal parasites, and children fail to receive services from outside agencies to diagnose and treat conditions.

Although Fraser Health has language services available to health care providers, most other community agencies do not have the funding available to pay for translators. Public health nurses are more and more having to take on the case management and coordination of care in the community for this burgeoning population. In the last seven months, Burnaby Preventive Health Services has spent $19,000 in translation costs for that area of health alone.

In British Columbia, unlike the rest of Canada, free ESL classes are provided to ELSA level three only, after which they must pay for further instruction. Level six is considered basic conversational English. The expectation on refugees is that after one year on the resettlement assistance program, they will then find employment and begin to pay back the government loan incurred to relocate. As research indicates, it takes five years of intensive immersion in ESL programs before conversational English is achieved. This will be a growing problem for Fraser Health for many years.

At present, most tertiary and specialist care centres are located in Vancouver, which poses the following problems:

Refugees unable to speak or read English cannot be informed of appointments without a translator, and then are challenged on how to reach them, as they are unable to use the transit system. There are no systems in place to facilitate this and no established communities with volunteers with linguistic skills.

Funding for travel to refugees is designed for one travel zone, when hospitals in Vancouver are three zones away. The cost of attending appointments to the economically disadvantaged family results in them missing appointments or not being able to afford food that week. Pre- and post-natal care for HIV-positive women is only available in Vancouver at the Oak Tree Clinic. If the woman has a primary physician, the medication could be couriered to the family physician. Once again, access to a primary physician for this population is severely limited. This leads to the families having to go to Vancouver to collect their medication.

Under existing legislation, disabled refugees are not able to apply for designation as disabled until one year after their arrival in Canada. At present, limbs and prostheses are available from a charitable institution in Vancouver that has no translators or means to assist these individuals with travel costs or physiotherapy.

Non-English-speaking refugees are unable to access birth control, due to their limited access to primary care physicians. Attempts to facilitate organizations such as OPTions for Sexual Health, formerly Planned Parenthood, were unsuccessful due to the lack of funding for translators. Finding pharmacists in Burnaby to participate in the interim federal health pharmacy benefit system is a challenge. Reasons for this include the extensive paperwork required to be submitted by them to obtain financial recompense and the delay of up to six weeks to receive payment. Consequently, there are times when the refugees living in Burnaby are unable to fill their prescriptions unless they travel to Vancouver.

An appropriate birth control option for non-literate refugees with psychosocial conditions who are unable to administer daily medication is the intra-uterine device, IUD, which is not covered by the interim federal health act. This means that the refugee must wait for 12 months until they are covered by welfare to obtain their IUD. This often results in unplanned pregnancies that place further financial demands on the economically disadvantaged families.

Vitamin D supplements for children are not covered, which is a particular problem for a group that has suffered years of malnutrition prior to coming into Canada.

The impact of the numbers of refugees arriving here who are HIV-positive is only just beginning to be felt, and will have an ongoing effect on the whole health care system.

Families with children with special needs are the most challenging and hardest to assist. Unable to read, write, or speak English, these families are expected to navigate, with no additional support, various government forms and applications for equipment and services for their children. Often these children do not receive treatment and are lost in the community until school entry.

At present, there are no special resources for adults, youth, or children who do not speak English and suffer from chronic depression and post-traumatic stress syndrome. As a result, it is very difficult to develop strategies and provide services. The combination of medical and psychosocial issues and insufficiently supported translocation to Canada is resulting in increasing numbers of crises and suicide attempts.

Many of the refugees arrive in Canada after years of malnutrition that has long-term effects on their physical and dental health. As a result, adults and children often have abscesses, and have sustained facial and dental injuries from acts of violence, causing severe pain. It is not unheard of for these adults to extract their own teeth because they can find no source of help.

Frequently, refugees are unaware they have emergency dental coverage through the interim federal health program. Dental offices have expressed concern that they have provided emergency dental treatment and not been paid by the interim federal health act. The pre-authorization process for dental treatment under the interim federal health program can be cumbersome and unpredictable. There appear to be inconsistencies in what is approved and what is not.

Research has shown that adults with decay transfer cavity-causing germs to their young children. By not treating the dental disease of the adults, we are ensuring that the next generation will be at high risk for tooth decay, and so the cycle continues. It is not uncommon for treatment costs for very young children to exceed $2,000, not including the $500 per hour for the general anesthetic that is required to provide treatment safely to already traumatized children.

After one year as permanent residents, the children may become eligible for the healthy kids program, which pays for some dental treatment and eyeglasses for children younger than 19. Unfortunately, their parents are not eligible for any free dental care, even during pregnancy, when dental bacteria may result in pre-term or low birth weight babies.

In conclusion, there needs to be an innovative, multi-service approach that helps immigrants and refugees while facilitating a stronger, more cohesive, and healthier community, and reducing the costs of translation services. The hub would provide such an answer.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you for your presentations. They were very interesting indeed.

We have about a half an hour, which will give seven minutes for each of the parties to make some comments or ask questions.

Mr. Wilson.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for coming and making a long trip out here from British Columbia. I left on Sunday, and it took me 15 hours to get here, so I can only imagine how long it took you, with the snow in Vancouver.

You said in your presentation that Burnaby's intake of refugees is 33% to 50% of all the refugees in British Columbia. What is the exact number of refugees that Burnaby has taken in the last 12 months?

Secondly, what does the trend line look like for numbers taken in over the last four or five years? Third, what do you project the numbers to be in the years to come?

9:30 a.m.

Councillor, City of Burnaby

Sav Dhaliwal

We'll let Basil answer that.

9:30 a.m.

Director, Planning and Building, City of Burnaby

Basil Luksun

Between January 2003 and December 2005, 2,444 government-assisted refugees came to B.C., and 823 of them came to Burnaby.

We believe that between November 1 and December 15 of this year, Burnaby will receive an additional 282 government-assisted refugees. So the number is increasing.

I believe Diana has recent statistics from the school district.

9:30 a.m.

Trustee, Burnaby School District

Diana Mumford

These have to do with the students coming here who are 18 years and younger. The data are for an eight-month period from January to August of 2006. For those 18 years and younger, we've had 150 individuals, 75 of them coming to Burnaby, which is 50% of them. Surrey had 24%, Richmond 16%, and so on. The top five source countries were Afghanistan at 25%; Colombia, 11%; Sudan, 9%; Congo, 7%; and Iran, Liberia and Somalia, 7%.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Why would refugee claimants choose Burnaby? I know it's a beautiful community, but there are so many other communities within British Columbia they could select. In your view, what is Burnaby offering that is the magnet for that vast number?

9:30 a.m.

Trustee, Burnaby School District

Diana Mumford

They seem to—

9:30 a.m.

Public Health Nurse, Burnaby Health Promotion and Prevention, Fraser Health

Karen Roth

I think the thing is that Burnaby offers low rental accommodation. It also has landlords who are less vigilant in enforcing restrictions on the numbers of clients in a house. For example, two-bedroom accommodation, from economic necessity, is often housing eight people. I also think they know there's a community evolving in Burnaby, and people go where someone else can speak their language and knows their country. We're actually victims of our success, in fact, in that we're offering such a great service that we're attracting more.

I also would like to point out that these statistics underestimate the number of refugees in B.C., because they're collected by ISS, which only follows a client for two years. We are increasingly finding migrating refugees from other provinces, who are not included in these numbers, which is important to bear in mind. People are landing in Ottawa and Winnipeg, but within a month are transferring to B.C., i.e., to Burnaby.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

I'm also finding that in the entire immigration process. People are landing in Quebec, for example, and then moving to British Columbia a year, two or three years later. So there's a huge increase in the immigrant population in British Columbia.

What support have you been receiving federally and provincially to help you deal with this huge influx of people to Burnaby?

9:30 a.m.

Councillor, City of Burnaby

Sav Dhaliwal

We're receiving very little; in fact, I think it's just the standard services. We're finding that the difficulty people are feeling everyday is that they are just not getting the basic services. What they are getting is through what we can provide unofficially from our own resources. There aren't any services outstanding from either the federal or provincial governments directly for the refugees; they are finding their own way through the maze. That's why we're here for the facility we're proposing.

The multi-service hub would be the one-stop welcoming place for anyone who needs any kind of help. That includes both from the translation perspective and that of getting people to where the services are needed.

Right now people are basically confused; they're lost. They go to their own community leaders looking for some help, who are also stretched for resources and having difficulty meeting their own day-to-day needs because they're also having a difficult time adjusting.

The other day leaders from the Sudanese community came to us and to our local MPs and MLAs and said, we have no place to go; can the city look after some of the immediate issues? As I said in my presentation, we just don't have the resources.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

For the multi-service hub facility you're speaking of—and you said earlier in your presentation that you've canvassed the government for resources for it—how much are you looking for to complete the facility?

9:35 a.m.

Director, Planning and Building, City of Burnaby

Basil Luksun

Mr. Chair, in trying to seek funding, we have approached the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, and we have been attempting to work with the Western Economic Diversification Office. To date, we haven't had any success.

The capital costs for the facility are estimated at about $12 million. Having said that, the City of Burnaby probably has about 80,000 square feet of space it has made available to non-profit organizations at either a low rate or rent free. So the city does contribute to that.

In terms of your question as to why a lot of the refugees come to Burnaby, some factors have been mentioned. The other factor is that we have a system called community schools, which is fairly unique, partly funded by the city from some of the provincial ministries and the school board. It is unique in that we attempt to address the community issues that come to the fore. So, for example, if you go to one of our community schools....

And we have six or seven, Diana?