Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 19th, 2007

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Just as a follow-up to that, Madam Minister, there is no question that there are various issues related to unique situations that have developed because of the anomalies of the act. One of those anomalies involves second-generation Canadians; in other words, Canadians born outside Canada to Canadians who were born outside Canada. It was the immigration committee that indicated there needed to be some substantial connection to the country at some point to recognize citizenship and to preserve it. But there are others who have a substantial connection, as you mentioned; those, particularly, living on the border.

Can they be assured that all of the old age security, the supplements, and health benefits will continue while you approach matters on an interim and a more permanent basis?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

There are two aspects to that question. Number one, for the individuals who have been identified as having these anomalies of citizenship, yes, we have taken steps to ensure that while their case is being reviewed, they will not be removed from the country. As well, their benefits will continue if they're currently receiving them, because we do not want any hardship imposed upon them. That's for the short term for these specific individuals.

Over the long term and in the broader picture, most if not all of our social benefits are not based on citizenship, but rather on residence. Old age security, for example, is not based on whether you have citizenship or not. It's how long you've lived within the country that determines your eligibility.

So Canadians are not at risk from that point of view, but we are making sure that in the case of these people who are directly affected by the things we're trying to fix today, their benefits will continue, and they will not be removed from the country while their case is being reviewed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Komarnicki.

That completes our seven-minute rounds. We'll now go to five-minute rounds, and I'll begin with Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Madam Minister. Thank you for coming here today.

I just want to clarify one thing. From what I heard from you today, I understand that you have a short-term solution to the individual cases that your department has come across of the so-called lost Canadians and that you are dealing with them on a case-by-case basis. You also acknowledged that those represented unfortunate, unintended consequences of the original Citizenship Act, but you are still looking for and inviting us to propose a way of dealing with them in the long term.

So you don't have a plan right now on how to overhaul the system or look at it from a fundamental point of view?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Well, we do have things we know we'd like to do. The trick is always that it's not just what you do, it's how you do it.

I've been in this job for about six weeks now. Frankly, with the experience you have--I counted it up, and around this table you have 19 years of experience on these issues--I would like to benefit from that experience. I believe and always have believed that several heads are better than one. I never have pretended to have all the answers. I believe quality comes when a lot of good people with a lot of knowledge work together.

So that's why I'm quite eager to have your input.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

It is accurate, then, that right now there is no long-term...or what direction in which the overhaul will take place?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

The general direction is that we want to fix this for the long term. We don't want to keep using band-aid approaches.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Very good.

You know that the previous government had set aside $20 million for a review process for citizenship, which your government has cut. May I ask why it was cut?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

At that point there was not a citizenship act going forward. If those circumstances change, if there is an act to go forward, then, I believe, there could be some funding available.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

But the whole idea for that review was exactly to address these issues. The review was beginning to take place, and your government decided to cut that fund and to stop the review process, and now we're dealing with the situation. I'm just curious as to why the decision was made to stop that process and remove the $20 million fund.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

We had a couple of choices to make. We could go ahead with a complete review of the Citizenship Act and replace it, or go with Bill C-14. We chose to go ahead with Bill C-14 as a priority.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Okay. You'r bringing up an interesting point. I want to note a pattern that we're seeing here. We're seeing that there's an IRB appointment review process on the go. There is a dual citizenship review process as we understand it. There's Bill C-14. There's the foreign credentials issue that we still haven't seen any progress on. So it looks as though there's a lot of inertia or lack of political will. None of these things has moved forward. It appears to us that none of them has moved forward.

I'm just curious: is this a pattern? What is going on? Why is there a lot of foot-dragging?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Actually we have made a lot of progress on a lot of fronts. For example, I cite the temporary foreign workers program, and the announcements that were made in November to enhance that. There are facilities in British Columbia and Alberta and dedicated sites to help foreign workers, and help the employers that need them. We've developed with B.C., Ontario, and---

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

What about these issues that I just raised? The IRB appointment review process; the dual citizenship review process; the Bill C-14, which is supposed to be a priority--you just said it's a priority--and the foreign credentials issue, which has been announced. The creation of the agency was announced earlier in 2006, but as far as we know, nothing has happened yet.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

On the foreign credentials review, we've actually made a lot of progress. We didn't want to just charge in, set something up, and then find out it was the wrong thing. We've taken the last year to do extensive consultations with the provinces and territories and a wide range of stakeholders. There are over 440 regulatory bodies involved, and we're going to be making an announcement soon.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Can I address that point? It's really interesting. When it comes to cutting and stopping programs, you don't do any consultation. You do it right away. You just terminate the program and cut it. When it comes to implementing positive things that you yourself have promised, apparently it's multi-dimensional and very complicated and you need to consult a lot of stakeholders.

It appears to be very contradictory. When it comes to slashing, you do it right away, with no consultation. When it comes to implementing programs, we need to consult and we need to talk to stakeholders. And nothing happens.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

When you're designing something new, it's important to make sure.... It's much easier to cut something, for example, than...or to tear down a tent than it is to put it up.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

We know that.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

When you're building something, you want to design it right, because it's going to last a long time.

Look at these two acts we're discussing today and the implications they have for Canadians. These are consequences that were, hopefully, never intended. This is the sort of thing we're trying to avoid. We want to get it right the first time, as we build it, so it is effective and doesn't have to be cut.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Minister.

That completes the five minutes.

We'll go to Mr. Jaffer.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Madam Minister, and your officials, for being here.

I have to agree with Mr. Alghabra. I mean, he's mentioning a number of issues that are in the pipeline, and some slow movement. I understand his frustration. There's a big mess that our government had to clean up from the previous government. So I can understand his frustration.

I know, Madam Minister, that in the short time you've been there, it's clear that you've been working very diligently to not only get caught up on, I think, such an important file, but you're bringing forward some really important processes and doing that carefully, as you say, by consulting with the provinces. I think that's something our government feels very strongly about, respecting provincial jurisdiction.

Looking particularly in the area of Alberta--I say this at the outset, and then I have a specific question on lost Canadians--we have a huge challenge right now with labour shortages. We have a huge challenge trying to process, often, the temporary workers' permits. I think you're very well placed, being that you've had the chance to sit with HRSD, and now, Citizenship and Immigration, to help move some of those challenges along.

It's really a crisis we're facing in Alberta when it comes to meeting the labour shortages. We're working, as you know, because of the leadership of our government, on expanding the provincial nominee program and also on coordinating better with the temporary workers' permits. So I encourage all the work you can do, Minister, to continue to streamline it and improve the timelines for processing some of those temporary workers' permits. Because as I deal with industries, particularly in Alberta, I continually hear that that is a huge challenge. I do appreciate your hard work on that file.

Specifically, I remember that in 2005, one of our colleagues, John Reynold--he's no longer here--co-sponsored a private member's bill, Bill S-2. That was the first time I learned about the issue of lost Canadians, and I remember the debate that took place. From what I remember, the bill amended the Citizenship Act to change the resumption of citizenship provisions for people who ceased to be Canadian citizens as minors between January 1, 1947, and February 14, 1977. The one thing that was interesting about this bill was that it actually did receive royal assent. I think all parties were behind the bill and appreciated the fact that it needed to be passed.

Since this issue did actually become law, from what I understand, I was wondering whether you or your officials could comment on the course of action the department took to deal specifically with the provisions in this bill and whether it was successful. Is that why some of these things are happening that we've heard in your report today, Madam Minister?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Bill S-2 certainly did have some very desirable outcomes intended, and it was a good start. A lot had to be done to inform the public, and we did that. People were informed through the website and through the call centre. Embassies and consulates were made aware of it. We've been able to go ahead with the implementation, and naturally, every time you raise awareness of a subject, it identifies more people who you didn't know existed. It did address part of it. We've actually dealt with 168 applications so far in our Sydney office, which are now in various stages of processing.

So there is a success story there.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

It seemed that there had been some building on that. I just wanted to know how that process was streamlined at the time.

In your report you mentioned a fair amount about citizenship and your participation in the citizenship ceremony last week. At this table, we have a fair amount of diversity represented here when we're dealing with immigration issues. As you know, my family came here as refugees in the early seventies. Mr. Telegdi's family was in a similar situation as well, and obviously others were the same. We've seen more and more diversity not only in this country but—

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Especially on this side of the House.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I don't think anyone has a monopoly on citizenship and diversity in this country. It's something we can all take pride in.

Nonetheless, one of the things we have to remember is that we obviously all define ourselves differently as Canadians. That's one of the beautiful aspects of this country. But outside of the actual legislation that we often debate and get caught up in here, I'm curious to hear, in your own words, Minister, how you would define the characteristics that define us as Canadians and where you expect to take this particular department. Since you're a new minister, I'd like to hear that.