Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 15th, 2010

[Claudette Deschênes]

The Canadian government did not change its definition of family class.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Will you actually be able to fulfill your commitment for applications received under the Haiti special measures? I think you did mention that in your earlier answer. What about following.... We don't have special measures now, I presume. What are CIC's processes and commitments now?

[Claudette Deschênes]

As I said, we have 23 decision-makers as opposed to six working on the file. We continue to do that. We continue to process cases as quickly as possible. We're using resources in Canada, in Santo Domingo, in Port-au-Prince. In Port-au-Prince, where the situation continues to be fluid, we have resources focused on the program integrity issue so we can say yes to people where we have doubts, but we can clarify by doing DNA testing or that type of thing.

Our priorities continue to be family class and the cases under the Quebec special measures and the adoption cases.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

You touched lightly on the special measures CIC did compared to other crises you've been involved in. Can you expand that a little more?

[Claudette Deschênes]

Normally when there's a crisis situation, first of all we look at the level of crisis that exists. We tend to put some special program in place, but we will not normally add significant resources to dealing with the issue. Because we were preparing for our global case management where we want to use the system much more as a virtual network where we can move work to where people are, we were able to mobilize a lot more people from the Haitian family connection, Haitian groups that could speak Creole, that type of thing. A lot of people from the call centre supported us. We had a lot of officers throughout our network who had worked in Haiti before who we were able to bring into the office in Ottawa.

Rénald, do you want to...?

[Rénald Gilbert]

I can only add that I'm not sure we had ever had a crisis of that magnitude before. We've had a few. The last one of that magnitude would be the tsunami, for instance, but it was much more spread out. We had clients from different countries in different situations.

But for something like Haiti, we've put in a lot of effort in terms of the number of decision-makers, resources, care with the applications. When we mentioned the 12 weeks processing time, it meant very often not only that we would ask people to do medical forms, but we would phone them every two days asking if they had done them to make sure, or if they needed some guidance.

We've used new tools as well. We often use text messaging to get in touch with clients. We had done that in other circumstances, but with Haiti it was sometimes the only means to communicate with individuals.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Thank you.

Do I have more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

One minute.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Mr. Young.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

Could you please fully describe why so few of the Quebec special measures applications have been processed? How is the process supposed to work, and why have so few gone through? What do you expect to happen in the future?

[Claudette Deschênes]

Interestingly, I think the Quebec special measures are also a success for us.

You will remember that applications had to be dealt with by the Quebec government, and they would decide if they were going to approve them or not and issue a certificat de sélection du Québec. Then they would need to get that to the applicant or family member, who would then fill out a form and send it in.

We've calculated that for about 80% of the cases there's a 75-day delay between when Quebec says yes and when we get an application form.

When I look at what we've managed to do, the great majority of cases that have arrived before September.... One of the problems is we didn't start receiving cases until May, when we received 28 cases. In June we received 74. The numbers started going up, to 336 in August and 338 in September. Even there, when I look at up to September, we have approximately 80 cases that we haven't made a selection decision on. All those other cases are being processed--doing medicals, getting ready to be issued visas--or have been finalized.

It means we're dealing with cases that arrived here in October or November. I think we've done a good job of moving those cases forward. We were lucky to have the Quebec cases not come in at the same time we were trying to clear the family class cases that were in the system, but I think I talk too much.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

No. I try to follow the rules and generally fail. Thank you very much.

Mr. Young, we're way over time.

Mr. Bélanger, we're on five-minute rounds.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I want to revisit this matter of fees charged. The difficulty is the following.

I attended the meeting at Le Patro here in Ottawa. There were about 700 Haitian families represented there. Basically they were told to make applications to sponsor, even though the people they were trying to sponsor fell out of the categories. Because Quebec had extended its categories and softened its stance, if you will, people hoped these would be considered, so they submitted all applications and included all fees.

I'm just trying to zero in on those people. You have to put yourself in their shoes. They live in the same country, and across the river their brothers and sisters can sponsor but they can't. At one point it became problematic. A lot of people considered moving to Gatineau. Of course you'd like that.

Anyhow, I presume those applications were rejected right off the bat.

[Claudette Deschênes]

It was my understanding—and this may have been a mistake on our part—that no fees were required in the beginning.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Fees were indeed charged, madam. I met scores of people who had to submit a cheque. Some even took out a bank loan just to pay the fees.

I just want to know one thing. The handling fees are minimal in this kind of situation. In cases where applications were automatically denied, would the government be prepared to reimburse those fees?

[Claudette Deschênes]

Since that is a political question, I do not think I can answer.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I have already asked Mr. Dykstra in the House, and he did not seem to want to agree to that. I am asking again.

In those cases where people, in good faith, applied and paid the required fees but had their applications denied ipso facto because the Government of Canada decided not to relax the sponsorship rules for citizens, particularly in Ontario, would the government be willing to consider reimbursing the fees paid by those applicants? That question has not been answered.

Last question--quickly.

If someone appeals the department's decision, I believe the department normally has 120 days to provide its position and submit the documentation. But that is not what is happening with Haitian cases right now. Appeals are being postponed indefinitely. I assume it has to do with the fact that staff are swamped. At least that is what I was told. For the time being, everything is on hold. Do you have any idea when the department will address that?

[Rénald Gilbert]

This is the first I am hearing about Haiti-related appeals not being processed. I do not know why that would be, but.... We would need to look into this matter.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I have come across a few cases where that is what is happening to people. The 120-day time limit has come and gone, but these people are being told that their appeals have been postponed indefinitely because the department is busy with other things.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have a couple of minutes.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

It's a minute and a half, actually.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

I want to come back to Quebec's selection process. In light of the 75-day delay you talked about, applications received prior to July 21 are still being processed, even though the program ended on September 1.

[Claudette Deschênes]

If the applications were submitted to the government of Quebec—