Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 3rd, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

This is the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, meeting number 30, Tuesday, April 3, 2012.

We have a video conference from Germany. From the Federal Ministry of the Interior of Germany, we have Mr. Christian Klos, the Head of Unit Immigration Law. We have Corinna Richard, Deputy Head of Unit Immigration Law. And we have Mr. Roland Brumberg, Counsellor of Unit Immigration Law.

Good morning, and welcome. We thank you very much for agreeing to speak to us.

Mr. Klos, please go ahead.

[Christian Klos, Head of Unit Immigration Law, Federal Ministry of the Interior of Germany]

Thank you very much.

Good morning, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee.

I would like to introduce us. My name is Christian Klos, as is already known. Within the department for migration, I am in charge of immigration law. This field contains quite a range of issues, including national legislation regarding the German residence law, European legislation on labour migration and family reunification, and various other issues, such as resettlement and other admissions for humanitarian reasons.

I would like to introduce my colleague Ms. Corinna Richard, who is in charge of an initiative that my be of interest to you, the so-called smart borders initiative of the European Union. We are in the initial phase of discussions on what could be the future immigration and border control regime in Europe. My colleague Mr. Roland Brumberg is in charge of detention, deportation, removal, and expulsion. I understand this is also something you would like to learn about.

The questions we have received from you cover a wide range of issues. What I could present to you now is the first phase, something now undergoing major political debate. There are three issues: first, major changes to the immigration law with regard to highly skilled migration; second, a permanent resettlement program here in Germany; and third, the smart borders Initiative in the framework of the European Union.

Chair, what would you like to learn from us?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We could just jump into questions and the committee will soon tell you what they want to learn.

We'll start off with Ms. James. Ms. James is with the government, the Conservative Party.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and my thanks to our guests from the Republic of Germany.

Canada is moving towards increased border security and the use of biometrics. But my first question has to do with the electronic passport that you introduced in November 2007. I believe it was to help your government prevent fraud and security risks. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about that. How has the electronic passport for foreigners, refugees, and stateless individuals helped your government prevent fraud and security risks?

[Christian Klos]

Thank you.

We have already had two generations of documents with biometric identifiers. On the one hand, this is the electronic passport for German citizens, and this has been introduced, as you just mentioned. In addition, at the end of last year we also introduced, following European provisions, the residence title, the electronic residence permit, which is now issued in a card form. It used to be a sticker in the passport of the person concerned, but now we have started to issue an identity card type of security document with the same security features and biometric identifiers as we had with our electronic passports.

With regard to the passports of our own nationals, we are still in the rollout phase. You cannot change the whole generation of existing passports in a few months' time, so the old passports, those without biometric identifiers, are still valid. They are valid for up to ten years. From now on it will be about seven years or so for all documents to be changed to the new system.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Could I interrupt you for a moment? We have very limited time to ask questions.

I'm wondering if you could speak specifically to how this move you did in 2007 for electronic passports and biometrics has helped to prevent fraud and security risk. Could you speak specifically to how it's improved within Germany by moving to those two measures--not necessarily the background, but how it has actually improved or prevented fraud and security risk in Germany?

[Christian Klos]

We already had quite secure documents before, but of course the direct comparison between the information contained in the chip, the visible information on the passport itself, and the person at the control post enhanced the security enormously.

It's much more difficult and requires a lot of knowledge to actually manipulate it. I'm not informed about any successful attempt to tamper with the information stored on the chip. This is a complete new dimension in the field of document security.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I'm wondering what type of pre-screening is done using the electronic passport. What pre-screening is done with that specifically?

[Christian Klos]

What do you mean by pre-screening in this context?

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

For example, what is it you're checking for? You've moved to the electronic passport and you're using biometrics. What is it you're screening for?

[Christian Klos]

The issuance of the passports follows the registration in the public registry of each municipality. There are clear identity checks before issuance of the electronic passport. It's part of the whole issuance process that there are identity checks before the electronic passport is issued so it can be guaranteed that the passport holder is indeed the person registered in the local municipality.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

We've had other witnesses talk about it being great to do biometrics so you know that who is arriving in your country is actually who applied to come to your country. In addition, if the person is an individual you do not want to come in and then they show up at your border but you haven't been able to check his biometric data with any other country, the whole aspect of being able to cross-check databases with other countries is critical.

I'm wondering what other countries you share your biometric data with. What countries do you cross-check with so you can ensure that when you're checking someone's identity you can not only verify who arrives, but also that the person is someone you want to admit into your country?

[Christian Klos]

You are now mentioning another subject, which is the use of biometric information in the entry and exit system of Germany. I assume you're fully aware that we live in a hybrid system, so to speak. We have a European system of security. There are European systems of immigration and admission control in place that already make use of the biometric identifiers. There's only one system, which has been in place for some years now, and this is the Eurodac system for the identification and registration of asylum seekers.

Second, we now have in the rollout phase the so-called visa information system. The rollout has just started with some countries in North Africa, so we have little information and little experience with that. It will allow us to identify people with the use of biometric identifiers. We will use fingerprints and passport pictures. But we do not have experience yet. This will allow us to identify all members of countries with visa applications in their countries or when they arrive at the border.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Klos.

The next person is the critic for the New Democratic Party, the official opposition, Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for being with us here today.

Currently before Parliament in Canada is a bill that, if passed, would require the mandatory detention of refugees who come to Canada by irregular means. Those are refugees not coming through the United Nations program; rather, they just arrive at our borders.

Does Germany have a policy of mandatory detention of refugees who arrive by irregular movement? And if so, how long is that detention?

[Christian Klos]

Actually, we do not have mandatory detention of asylum seekers. We have a different system.

Persons apply for asylum, and then they are attributed to particular federal states. We have a federal country. They are attributed to a specific federal state. Within this federal state, this person is required to live in a certain area, a certain district. He or she is actually required to live in this particular area. There are criminal law provisions forcing this person to stay there. Social contributions are only paid in this district, which ensures that the person does not travel around Germany. But they are free to move within the area.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Are they allowed to work?

[Christian Klos]

They are not allowed to work within the first year of their presence in Germany.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Do they receive any support from the government of Germany? How are they living?

[Christian Klos]

Sure. There's full accommodation for these persons. They get food. They get a certain minor allowance.The costs of living are fully covered by the authorities.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Do you have any policy on the detention of children? Given what you said, does Germany detain children who are seeking asylum?

[Christian Klos]

For children, it's the same as I just said. They are part of the normal process, of course. These are vulnerable persons. Therefore, there's special attention given to the specific needs of children, but there is no different policy with regard to detention.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Does Germany have a policy that certain countries in the world are so-called safe countries and do not generally produce refugees?

[Christian Klos]

Yes. We introduced this in the early 1990s, well after the collapse of the eastern bloc. We had, in 1993, 450,000 asylum seekers a year. Therefore, the constitutional right to asylum needed to be adjusted. Parallel to the Geneva Convention, we have the constitutional right, and within this provision we have changed the law and have introduced a list of safe countries of first asylum.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'd like to talk a little bit about the Roma. I know it's a sensitive subject, particularly in Germany, given the history of Germany during World War II. I understand that the Roma were among the groups of people who were targeted by the state. They were imprisoned and sent to concentration camps and the gas chambers.

Can you tell us what the position of Germany is with respect to the Roma coming into Germany? Do you have any particular policy on whether the Roma are or are not genuine refuge seekers?