Evidence of meeting #63 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site.) The winning word was report.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Emmanuelle Deault-Bonin  Manager, National Security Policy Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Karen Clarke  Deputy Director, Migration Control and Horizontal Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Jillan Sadek  Director, Case Review, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Good afternoon. This is the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, meeting number 63, Monday, November 26, 2012.

This meeting is televised pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, October 16, 2012. We are in the process of clause-by-clause study of Bill C-43, An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

I presume you have all received the amendments from the different caucuses. The committee's clerk has received 23 amendments. One is from the government; nine are from the New Democratic Party; and thirteen are from the Liberal Party.

You will note that some amendments concern the same lines. The NDP amendments came first, so the NDP will have the first opportunity to.... It's nothing against you personally, Mr. Lamoureux, but that's the process.

Some of the amendments will have the same intent, so we'll have a general discussion before we vote.

Those are my preliminary remarks. We will postpone clause 1, as pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), that will go to the end of our deliberations.

We have three clauses for which there are no amendments. We'll try this and see how it goes.

Shall clauses 2, 3, and 4 carry?

3:30 p.m.

An hon. member

No.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Shall clause 2 carry?

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

No.

Sorry, I'm on the wrong line. Yes. That's my mistake. I'm awake now.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Shall clauses 2, 3, and 4 carry?

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

No.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

On division.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

Clause 2 carries.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

No. Can we vote on each one separately?

(Clause 2 agreed to)

(Clause 3 agreed to on division)

(Clause 4 agreed to)

(On clause 5)

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We are now on clause 5 after all that.

Ms. Sims appears to have the first amendment.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We have proposed nine very reasonable amendments which, if accepted, would help produce a more balanced piece of legislation. We hope members will give them fair and honest consideration. We remain committed to working with the government to make sure serious violent offenders are removed from Canada as quickly as possible, but we need to curb the excessive power this bill gives the minister and restore some due process rights to newcomers. Our amendments do just that.

It was clear from the testimony we heard that Bill C-43 is not a silver bullet when it comes to public safety.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We're on clause 5, Ms. Sims.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

I was going to do the overall introduction first.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

You can proceed as long as you're not talking for a long time.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

I won't be. I have very few other comments left.

We sent this legislation to committee after we approved it at second reading because we wanted to work with the government to fix this piece of legislation so that it would achieve the intent of removing serious violent offenders. However, we need to address the lack of training, resources, and integration of information and monitoring technologies within the responsible public service agencies. The vast majority of newcomers to Canada are law-abiding people who want to build better lives for themselves and their families. We hope this committee can move on and spend more effort making sure that they are treated fairly, have the resources they need, and can be reunited with their families.

We ask for the support of all committee members for our first amendment. We believe it is a modest amendment to this clause, which creates an obligation for foreign nationals to appear for a CSIS interview if directed by an officer. The intent of this amendment is to limit the requirement of foreign nationals to answer questions at a requested CSIS interview to questions relevant to the actual application.

In his testimony to this committee, Lorne Waldman, representing the Canadian Association of Refugee Lawyers, said:

I don't think it's a bad idea that if CSIS officers are going to conduct interviews, they be given the authority to do so. My concern, however, is that when you embark upon this road, you have to realize that it's unprecedented to give CSIS officers the power to compel people to answer questions, because they've never had that power, and it's inconsistent with their role, some would say, as intelligence officers.

The brief we received from the Canadian Bar Association also raises concerns about the obligation to attend a CSIS interview. In it they say:

An unfettered obligation to answer queries from CSIS could in many cases be deeply problematic, as an individual could be placed in the unenviable position of having a legal obligation to provide information about others with no relevance to their own immigration application.

We agree with Mr. Waldman that if CSIS interviews are already being required in some cases, without a legislative framework, it is appropriate for this to be added to this bill. However, we share his concerns, as well as those of the CBA, about how this clause could be applied.

We would respectfully ask for the support of committee members to amend this clause so that these CSIS interviews have clearly defined parameters.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

I don't think we ever heard your amendment. Maybe you could do that.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

I will read the amendment.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

It's probably my fault, Ms. Sims. I should have asked you to do that at the outset.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

I move that Bill C-43 in clause 5 be amended by replacing line 14 on page 2 with the following:

must answer truthfully all questions relevant to the application put to them

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

As you know, yours is identical, Mr. Lamoureux. Do you wish to speak to it?

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Yes, Mr. Chair.

What I'll do is address both. It's a good idea to bring forward this amendment. Obviously, both opposition parties have seen the merit in this. I guess, at first—

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

I have a point of order.

I'm not sure where were are.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We're on clause 5—

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

I just moved this amendment.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Ms. Sims, please, you forget that I'm the chairman.