Evidence of meeting #72 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was education.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Has the working group you mentioned deployed any resources?
To your knowledge, were resources deployed to offer these students psychological assistance?
5:20 p.m.
As an Individual
It's still not the case, I think. We haven't had any resources from anyone until now. We are still struggling with depression on a day-to-day basis. Our loneliness is killing us. We haven't been back to see our families for the past six years. We haven't had any help until now.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
My next question may be a sensitive one, but above all I want you to speak from the heart. There's no right or wrong answer, of course.
A recent report published by the Department of Citizenship and Immigration at the end of September 2022 officially admitted that there was racism within the department itself. This was in the context of the remarkably high refusal rate for French-speaking students from Africa, in particular.
The important thing, and what I want to emphasize, is that the department has officially admitted that there was racism within it. Feel free to respond as you wish.
Did you feel that you were a victim of racism as a result of the fraud detection system and the process that followed?
If the answer is no, so much the better, but this issue really intrigues me.
5:20 p.m.
As an Individual
With regard to racism, to be very honest, I personally don't feel it whenever I meet IRCC officers and the CBSA. It's not there.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you.
A few years ago, a similar situation happened in Quebec. Indian students had come to study at private English colleges in Quebec. At the time, they experienced the same thing as you. The Quebec government reported irregularities in the students' files to the federal government. However, the Canadian government was slow to take action. Today, we find ourselves in much the same situation.
Do you believe that the situation affecting you and your fellow students today could have been avoided if the federal government, in collaboration with the Indian government, had put certain mechanisms in place?
I get the impression that there are no bilateral discussions between the two governments, although both governments are aware of these kinds of situations.
5:20 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes. It's correct that it could have been rectified before. As I said in my opening statement, this is our system. No system in this world is perfect. We have to make it perfect.
Another recommendation that I want to make is that we have to stop the connection between the ghost consultants and the colleges here. We have to make regulations whereby any of the colleges here in Canada can deal with only those consultants who are regulated by Canada's immigration department, and not just anyone. If you can do that, maybe we can avoid these kinds of scams in the future.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I put the same question to the minister. In Canada, one authority licenses immigration consultants, the College of Immigration and Citizenship Consultants. However, the College only considers consultants who have settled in Canada. There's no such thing abroad.
I was told that we can't control what happens elsewhere. But I think the opposite is true. We can monitor schools and universities that do business with these people.
What you're telling me proves me right. We need to impose a framework on schools and universities in which certain foreign agencies will no longer be able to do business with these institutions on Canadian soil.
Did I understand you correctly, Mr. Singh?
5:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes. You're absolutely right. My friend talked earlier about a documentary on CBC's The Fifth Estate. It explains the real connection between the consultants back home and the colleges here.
I think, to be very honest, from the limited knowledge I have, it's a matter of investigation. If a proper investigation is done, maybe new things will come up on the connections between these colleges and unscrupulous agents. Some of the colleges here in Canada are owned by the unscrupulous agents back home.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Your time is up, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. Thank you.
We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan.
Ms. Kwan, you have six minutes. You can please begin.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for their presentations today.
I also had the pleasure of meeting the students.
Also, to the Migrant Workers Alliance for Change, thank you for the incredible work you do—not just on this situation but on many others as well—for people who are seeking regularization and landed status on arrival.
I just want the committee to be very clear in terms of support for the students into the future. We now have a situation in which the government has established a task force. It has temporarily halted your deportation, and it's investigating the cases to ensure that the victims are not going to be penalized.
The government is ensuring that inadmissibility based on misrepresentation is a component or part of the solution, which I think is very important.
Today, at our briefing with officials, they confirmed that they will be using section 25.2 of IRPA to apply the inadmissibility, so that's really good.
The question I have for you, though, is in terms of the long term. Many of you, of course, come to Canada to study not only to develop your education. I think many of you hope to also stay here in Canada permanently. Part of the solution I don't yet see clearly from the government in addressing this is whether or not the government will actually offer you an ultimate pathway to permanent residency. My question to you, as impacted students who are victims of this fraud scam, is this. Are you calling for the government to provide you with an ultimate permanent residency pathway?
5:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, 100%, because we have already suffered a lot from the last two to three years. Many of the students may have to spend two to three more years.
Our recommendation and our suggestion is that we be given an alternative pathway to permanent residency, yes.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
5:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, I think the same way as Lovepreet Singh.
We have been studying for a long time, and mentally, financially.... We don't want to spend that much money again with lawyers and other things. It's a big financial burden on us, so that's why all the students need some kind of easier pathway for their status here.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Some people would argue that the PR pathway should be the process that you would otherwise just continue to embark on.
Do you think that would be the appropriate approach, or do you think there should be a special immigration measure targeted at the victims?
5:25 p.m.
As an Individual
If they treated us as victims and, in the investigation, took whatever recommendations we provided to the investigation team so they could find the genuine and the not genuine.... If the student got a clean sheet from the investigation, then 100%, a permanent pathway would be appreciated.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much.
I'm going to turn to Ms. Sarom Rho on this question.
Many of the students come to Canada with temporary status, and then we see in this instance that they are being cheated by unscrupulous immigration consultants. Other temporary foreign workers come to Canada and are also abused by the system, just because of the temporary status piece.
On this question, the NDP believes in the principle that if you're good enough to work here and if you're good enough to study here, you're good enough to stay here.
Could you advise us on whether or not that is an immigration policy the government should be adopting?
5:30 p.m.
Organizer, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
Yes, it's a policy decision to bring people here on temporary permits and keep them permanently temporary. These are the people who grow our food, but also students who are working in warehouses, in delivery and in restaurants, and many of the students who are part of the committee that held down the permanent protest.
Permanent resident status is not really just about the ability to stay or live in the country. It's fundamentally a mechanism for people to access the same rights, and protections and services.
Had the students had permanent resident status, they would have had the power to protect themselves and speak up when these agents did wrong, when colleges did wrong, which was largely what The Fifth Estate documentary was about.
Our work with care workers and with farm workers has shown us that without joint and several liability, without a regulatory mechanism, it's impossible for people to protect themselves.
Fundamentally, we call for permanent resident status and, in the lead-up to that, a regulatory regime for international students, hundreds of thousands of whom at a time are coming into the country each year.
5:30 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
The students who are already here and who have been subject to this fraud scam are the students, in many ways, whom Canada is looking for. We're still looking for international students to come, but many of them are already here.
The government is embarking on a process of regularization. That's regularizing people and giving full status to people who are temporarily here in Canada, who have lost status, who are undocumented or who are refugees.
Do you think that as part of the measure for addressing this situation, the government should regularize the victims of this scam?
Maybe we'll start with Lovepreet.
5:30 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, you're right. As you said earlier, if a person is good enough to study and work here, they should stay here.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
The time is up for Ms. Kwan.
We will now proceed to Mr. Kmiec for five minutes.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
Thank you, Chair.
I want to go back to something Ms. Sarom Rho said.
You said to weed out predatory schools. Can you expand on that?
5:30 p.m.
Organizer, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
Many of the private colleges that set up shop on the second floor of a building are designated as learning institutions by provinces and territories, which means that the federal government is issuing study permits for people to come to the country and study at these institutions.
Many of these private colleges also work in partnership with public colleges. For example, Lambton College is a public college and Cestar is its private college wing. There's a massive proliferation of these public and private partnerships.
The students who graduate from private colleges, even as they're here on study permits, are not allowed to apply for postgraduate work permits, which creates a minefield for exploitation—for recruiters to seek to exploit these students and for public colleges to get tens of thousands in tuition fees. Ultimately, there's no guarantee that even after these massive sacrifices and this massive investment, migrant student workers will get permanent resident status.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
You called them predatory because of the way they're using consultants. Something that both of you have said is that some of them might own some of these colleges. There's a mechanism by which they're owning and streaming people into them.
Is that part of the reason you're calling them predatory, or is it the recruitment practices in other countries? Three countries are affected that we know of: India, the People's Republic of China and Vietnam. The predatory nature of it sounds like it's just shady business practices.
The provinces are designating them as DLIs, therefore there has to be some type of verification being done. Is there no verification being done?
I'm trying to understand. Is it the business practices, or is their very existence questionable? Where's the starting point of the issues here?
5:30 p.m.
Organizer, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
There's a business model of recruitment that is being driven. Largely this is happening because there is no regulatory regime for the way these recruiters and colleges can operate.
We're calling for the federal government to create a registry of recruiters and make that publicly available. Colleges and universities who work in partnership with these recruiters and agents must also be liable, so that the students are not the ones being punished, ultimately.