Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2007

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'm not sure how the department will be dealing with this, but one of the pieces of legislation that was passed in this sitting of Parliament was the B.C. first nations education agreement. There's nothing in the supplementary estimates that talks about any funding for having that agreement move forward. So that's one question. I wonder what's going to happen in the department on the urban aboriginal strategy and the Powley decision. My understanding is that any funds that were allocated for those will expire March 31. I don't know if there's bridging.

There was nothing in the supplementary estimates to deal with those issues. I wonder if you could deal with that.

[Michael Wernick]

The reason for the second case would be that the supplementary estimates are for 2006-07, and that year is going to finish in two weeks. You're worried about whether there will be money there on April 1 for 2007-08?

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Yes, and I understand that the supplementary estimates are for 2006-07. But is having nothing in the future budget a signal—because there was nothing in the supplementary estimates for bridging, for example—that those programs are finished?

[Michael Wernick]

There are a lot of programs that technically finish on March 31. There will be a lot next year. We're going through the process now of finding the right assurances for people and of communicating these to them. I'm not worried about the urban aboriginal strategy or the Powley funding being there on April 1.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

You think there will be something there?

[Michael Wernick]

It will be there, and I'm quite confident it will be pretty much what we funded this year. We're trying to find a way to communicate that to the recipients in a way that helps them plan. It's not the best way to do things, I understand, because they go with a great deal of uncertainty late into the fiscal year. I have another 22 or 23 authorities expiring next March 31 to try to juggle as well. That's just part of the challenge.

On B.C. first nations education, the legislation is in place, and it's being implemented, and we have A-base funding. I'm not aware that there are any operational issues in getting it implemented. If there are, let me know.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Okay. I'll get back to you on that. We've had some conversations with the B.C. people, and apparently their understanding of the money that was going to flow is different from what's happening. I'll get back to you on that specifically.

[Michael Wernick]

Thank you.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Can I ask you a question on residential schools?

I don't want to talk about the common experience; I want to talk about the advance payment for elders who are over 65. When you talk about the fact that 10,338 people have been paid out and 13,447 people applied, is the difference between those two numbers people who have been turned down or people who are still waiting to be processed?

[Peter Harrison]

It's a mixture.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Can I ask you about the ones who have been turned down? We've been hearing from people who haven't been able to provide school records because the school has burned down, or income records.

[Peter Harrison]

Floods.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Yes, and floods. Several decades ago, not everybody expected that they'd have to keep those records.

I know some efforts were made to accommodate these elders, many of whom are ill. Is there anything else being done to help the seniors access that money?

[Peter Harrison]

The key question here is the availability of documentation, as you pointed out. Quite clearly, some of these documents are in institutions that burnt down or flooded, as you pointed out.

We're working very closely, Ms. Wilson in particular, with the various church agencies. In the provinces, for example, we have an agreement with the Northwest Territories to access their information. We have well over a million documents online that we can use. But it's quite clear there are some instances where there are missing documents.

In the case of the advance payment, it was an attempt to do as much as possible without putting people into difficulty. Those who could not confirm residency or those for whom we could not confirm residency, of course, will still be able to apply for the common experience payment, as will all of the other recipients. This does not replace it.

I don't know, Gina, whether or not you want to briefly say anything about missing records.

[Gina Wilson, Assistant Deputy Minister, Indian Residential Schools Resolution Canada, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

The only thing I'll add is that for the 1,390 elders who had missing records, we're going to be fast-tracking those applications and putting them up first, because we already have most of the information.

Under the common experience payment, we'll have a number of new strategies and policies that we didn't have under the advance payment program. We'll have a computerized search system. We'll have an enhanced manual review. We'll have a panel with survivor representation to review complex cases. We'll have a reconsideration process, and finally, we'll have an appeal mechanism. All of these steps were not available under the advance payment program, and there are new mechanisms in place to deal with those particular elders.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Are there any questions from the government side? Are there any further questions from the Liberal side?

Madam Neville, please.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Wernick, in response to my colleague's question about the $9 billion, you indicated that it included funding dedicated to aboriginal peoples from other departments.

In the House, sometime in the last two months—and I'm going to go back and check—I referenced the fact that this money includes the residential schools agreement, which is a legal entitlement. The minister in fact acknowledged that. Where is the residential schools agreement money listed in the budget, how is it listed, and where does it fall? As I said, he acknowledged it in the House, and I am curious to know how you determine it.

Ms. Crowder asked the question that I was going to ask about the residential schools process, because we also are hearing from many who are being denied standing as survivors, I guess, under the program. I'm pleased with the initiatives you're putting in, particularly the reconsideration and appeal.

My question to you is this. How are you going to be communicating it to the communities so that they know this option is available to them? Based on what we're hearing at the moment, they are not aware of it.

I have more questions, if I have time.

[Michael Wernick]

These sorts of accounting issues are a little difficult. The $9.1 billion figure that is used the most often is a snapshot that the Treasury Board Secretariat took of programming across the Government of Canada in 2005-06. This is all on the Internet, and we can work with the clerk to provide anything to follow it up. When they took the picture, standing in the frame was Indian residential schools as an organization. So if I have the right piece of paper in front of me, about $120 million of that was the activity in 2005 and 2006, which was the old alternative dispute model, the operating costs, and so on. This predates the large settlement that was reached earlier this year, and the large amounts of resources that will flow over the next year out of advance payments and the common experience payment.

You're right in the sense that some residential schools activity was captured in that $9.135 billion, and you could keep it in or leave it out.

On the fact that it's a legal obligation, I'm not sure what that tells you, because we also have legal obligations with respect to claims and negotiations. There are a number of things we do that are contractual or legal.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

But they're not in program dollars. It's misleading to list it as program dollars when it's not program dollars.

[Michael Wernick]

The claim settlements that were reached in 2005-06 are captured in there. If you were to take the picture again a year later you'd get a slightly different mix. If you were to take the picture again in 2007-08 you'd get a slightly different mix. But the portrait is more or less accurate of about $9 billion spread across 16 departments.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

What budget line are the payments coming out of? Is it that $120 million in advance payments?

[Michael Wernick]

No, that would have predated the whole settlement. In the 2006 budget, the government built the settlement from the Iacobucci process into the fiscal framework.

[Peter Harrison]

Maybe I can add a little detail to that.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I would appreciate it.

[Peter Harrison]

For 2006-07, for Indian Residential Schools Resolution Canada, as opposed to Indian Affairs, the total amount expended will be $244,600,000.

We can provide these numbers, Mr. Chairman. These are taken from the previous estimates process.

Operating costs—because we are having to build up a significant team to work with the survivors—are in the order of $93 million, and that's for our offices across the country.

I've already mentioned advance payments, but the existing process allowed for two things. One was for an alternative dispute resolution mechanism, where we have adjudicators who work with people and who work out a settlement. And the other is litigation, where individuals have gone before the courts and have received a result from the court that the Government of Canada has to pay.

Mr. Chairman, that amount this year, 2006-07, is $72 million.

If I add together what I already mentioned in answer to a previous question—the advance payments—and I add those settlements, that's a total of $154,700,000 that has gone to individuals.

Where is the $1.9 billion? The settlement agreement, which is the legally binding, court-approved, and court-supervised agreement between Canada, the church entities, and the aboriginal organizations, will come into effect once a number of things have taken place.

The first item is the support and the agreement of nine judges from across Canada. They met in Calgary on March 8. Eight have approved. The justice from Nunavut had a problem because of the weather and will come forward pretty soon, I would assume.

The settlement agreement lays out a number of things in addition to what I just referred to for 2006-07. It will effectively be a whole new program, Mr. Chair. The link between the two was the advance payments for the elders.

The new program will have several aspects to it. First of all, I've already mentioned the common experience payment. That is $1.9 billion that is currently in an account, effectively a special purpose account or a trust fund in the fiscal framework. So it is there. Following the implementation date, that will be made available through the regular appropriation process to Service Canada, which will be putting out the cheques.

The second item is that $60 million has been provided for a truth and reconciliation commission.

Third, $20 million has been provided to support commemorative activities, which will be a very important part of the ongoing process.

There is $125 million as an endowment to the Aboriginal Healing Foundation.

There is $100 million in cash and services that will come from the churches for healing initiatives.

And we expect $100 million in payments for legal counsel for former students.

The final element of this, Mr. Chairman, is what is referred to as the independent assessment process. The common experience payment will be to all individuals who attended, as a resident, an Indian residential school. The independent assessment process will be run by a chief adjudicator and a series of adjudicators working for her or him who will be totally independent of the Government of Canada. It will assess damages, because this is part, obviously, of a class action response. It will assess damages in terms of sexual abuse, physical abuse, and psychological abuse. It is effectively an extension of the alternative dispute resolution process.

We do not know, Mr. Chairman, how much that will be, because we don't know how many individuals will wish to go through that process, nor do we know what the assessment will be by the adjudicators. The settlement agreement, however, indicates that the Government of Canada will provide those funds on a timely basis.

I hope, Mr. Chairman, this has provided a little more detail on the funding.