Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 22nd, 2011

[Jeffrey Cyr]

Sure. At a national level the other major program is the cultural connections for aboriginal youth, referred to as CCAY. It's run out of the Department of Heritage, as is Young Canada Works.

As far as I'm aware--Conrad or Tricia can correct me--they haven't received funding increases in many years. The cultural connections for aboriginal youth is an extremely important one, because it engages aboriginal youth, a major growing part of the population, in decision-making about programs and services.

There's some debate internally about how funding criteria are set up within departments. I think we'd like to see the department and the minister responsible for us engage us more in policy discussion, as opposed to arbitrarily handing us guidelines about funding and how it is supposed to work.

I think we'd be more successful--and we've proven we have been for five decades--if we were engaged in the policy question at the front end. We could make it work for how those centres are structured.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you.

You have the floor, Mr. Lemay, for seven minutes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Frankly, I don't think you will have a hard time convincing anyone here at this table that you have a vital role to play. Let's not play politics here. It's clear. Meetings were held and all parties were present. We know that native friendship centres do critically important work.

To be honest, you should not have come here this morning, in my opinion. You should have gone to the finance minister's office. That's where things happen.

Obviously, we can make recommendations and we will most likely table a motion that I'm quite confident will be unanimously endorsed. Clearly, your funding needs to be increased.

There are two native friendship centres in the riding of my colleague Mr. Lévesque. I was involved in setting up one of these centres in Senneterre several years ago. The nature of the work done by native friendship centres seems to have changed.

I do not have the latest figures, but you claim that native friendship centres delivered over 1,300 programs and services across Canada in 2007-2008 alone to several hundred aboriginals, whether first nation, Métis or Inuit. There is no question that the work you do is critically important. I personally have no problem with that.

However, I ask myself the same question as my colleague Mr. Bagnell. I'm not sure if I should speak to someone—I'm not sure who exactly—in government. Representatives of the Regroupement des centres d'amitié autochtones du Québec told us that they were better off with Heritage Canada because they knew for a fact what their annual operating budget would be. They are not so sure of this with Indian and Northern Affairs Canada. I know that you have certain needs.

You have come here to see us. What are your expectations, as far as we are concerned? How can we help you?

Everyone here is in agreement. What do you want us to do to help you carry out your critically important mission in urban communities?

In case you missed it, l can tell you—and my colleague can confirm it—that violence has been on the rise in a number of communities and towns in Quebec. I can't speak for others, but I'm fairly confident that Winnipeg and Saskatoon have also seen an increase in violence. There is no question about that.

What specifically can we do today to help you?

You can use the five minutes I have left on my time to respond. And if my colleague has a question—

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Yes, I do have a question.

[Jeffrey Cyr]

Specifically, I need the committee to have very loud voices very often in advocating for friendship centres, and particularly this core aspect of funding. I also think the committee members should look at the government of the day and say that if we need a service partner, a partner to work with and to get things done, and government always does—I'm a former public servant, I worked in government, and we need partners to do things—then they should look to the friendship centres.

We know what we're doing on the ground. We're front-line people, working with people every day in serious situations.

I need your voices very loudly around government. Specifically beyond that, meeting with your provincial colleagues helps as well. A lot of our provincial and territorial associations receive substantive funding from their provincial governments, particularly in Ontario and British Columbia. However, many provinces don't do that. Many of our associations need our voice at the provincial level as well. A lot of the programs and services that affect aboriginal people off reserve are offered by provincial governments. It's important to advocate in that direction as well.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Cyr, discussions are currently under way and a program will be in place shortly. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the Nutrition North Canada program and whether you have weighed its potential impact on friendship centres. The territories are going to see an exodus of residents to urban areas because people will no longer be able to afford to live there. I've been to Montreal and the number of itinerant people there is staggering. Even the native friendship centre is hard-pressed to accommodate everyone who comes to their door. I'm quite fortunate because my riding is home to two large centres, one in Chibougamau and another in Val-d'Or. The centre in Senneterre is a little smaller, but all of them compete for dollars and find ingenious ways of funding a wide range of activities.

At times, I think it would be better if either Heritage Canada or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada had sole responsibility for this file. I really think that this should be Indian and Northern Affairs Canada's responsibility, and that it could always request Heritage Canada's assistance if necessary. The two departments could work together. In the case of the nutrition program, Health Canada and Indian and Northern Affairs Canada worked together. While this hasn't always proven very successful, the results could be more positive in this instance.

Have you assessed the impact of the Nutrition North program on the various centres in your regions? I'm thinking primarily about Ottawa and Montreal, since most flights from northern Canada land in Ottawa and Montreal.

[Conrad Saulis, Policy Director, National Association of Friendship Centres]

Thank you for the questions.

We are somewhat familiar with Nutrition North. Obviously we are very familiar with the cost of living in the north and the cost of goods and produce. As Jeffrey said earlier, I think it would certainly be beneficial for NAFC to be engaged in more policy dialogue and discussion with federal departments, including the Department of Indian Affairs and the Department of Canadian Heritage, to see what role friendship centres can play in helping urban aboriginal populations and other populations.

Other populations, whether they're in the north or in the south, also come to urban areas and rely on what friendship centres provide. Our reach in many cases is beyond the core of any of the cities where our friendship centres are located.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll have to leave it there. We're a little over time.

Let's go to Ms. Crowder for her seven minutes. Go ahead.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming before the committee today.

I just want to mention that although Chris Warkentin is no longer on the committee, he and I continue to co-chair the friendship centres all-party caucus, and I know Chris is as committed as I am to continuing to work with your organization around the all-party caucus.

Thank you very much for the friendship centre movement report.

I have a couple of questions. I think one of the dilemmas that's facing your organization and friendship centres across this country, and I have two in my own riding, is the fact that the federal government largely--and again, this not the current government, this is ongoing policy--says that once people are off reserves, they're no longer our responsibility.

So although there is funding coming into friendship centres federally, I think part of the dilemma you face is the fact that it's kind of a policy decision but it's not enshrined in any kind of way. When I looked at your national program funding by type, only 29% of your money comes from the federal government, and 62.8% comes from provincial and territorial governments. In my own province of British Columbia, 81.17% comes from the province.

I think until there is more commitment to recognizing that the relationship is changing, people are moving away from reserves and certainly Métis and Inuit are moving from their traditional communities into larger urban areas, until there's a recognition by the federal government that there's still a responsibility, whether you're on reserve or not, and quit downloading to provincial and territorial governments, you're going to continue to have this funding gap.

I wonder if you have a comment on that.

[Jeffrey Cyr]

Yes.

This picks up a question earlier from Mr. Bagnell. Indeed, the reality is changing. The reality of aboriginal people in Canada is changing, and this migration shift that's been going on for decades and increasing means that more than half of all aboriginal people now are off of a reserve land base. And the federal government tends to--in at least a strict, legal statutory way--look at their responsibility as an on-reserve issue.

There are important issues on reserve, don't get me wrong, that need to be addressed by the government. But there are increasingly important issues in urban settings that are suffering from this pull back and forth from reserve. And it's not one way; it's not reserve to urban. It actually goes back--reserve to urban, back to reserve, and back again--and you get this whole churn effect going on.

Yes, I think a greater commitment and recognition by the federal government across departments is important to say where are the issues we're trying to address in a socio-economic sense and to engage with friendship centres and our movement in helping to address those very serious issues.

The other point about downloading that I want to point out is that we, as you can tell, work well with provincial governments and we continue to want to work well with them. We see opportunities there for the federal government, the provincial governments, and us to work together. But there's also sometimes within government a decentralization trend with programming. If a program comes, and it's a $20 million program, to the friendship centres and it says they're decentralizing, so you run it--you have the infrastructure, so you do it--one of the problems we're running into is that the infrastructure is not supported. Their rationale behind it is that the infrastructure exists, so they shouldn't pick up any costs on the infrastructure; they're just devolving all the programs to us: you have the set little administration amount and away you go.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. To have a volunteer-based, democratic, structured organization that's effective, accountable, and efficient, which is the way the NAFC and the friendship centres are run, it takes some resources, and we should not be held to this sort of arbitrary “you've got an administration of 15%, you'd better be held to that”.

I think that's fine on its own, but there needs to be a recognition of the cost of governance, you could say, of having an organization that works at all levels. To be honest, we're running into a bit of that problem over the last four or five years or more about what's the cost of running an organization that has this breadth and depth to it. So there's downloading on one side. We'd like the federal government to commit to where the issues are in the urban setting and we'd like departments to realize that it takes more than a 15% administrative budget to run this. It doesn't quite work that way.

Sorry if I took too long, Mr. Chair.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I have another quick question.

You highlighted a really important issue related to the back and forth. I know, for example, that there was a project called the Cedar Project, which looked at HIV/AIDS infections in Vancouver and how people were returning to their home communities and taking that infection with them. You can't disregard the back and forth and the problems that happen, both urban and on reserve.

I understand some of the criteria you're changing on eligible expenses. For example, new friendship centres located on reserves may not be approved. I know that in British Columbia we have at least two friendship centres on reserves, and maybe more. I know that there are others across the country. There are some other things on capital construction, renovation, and mortgages and some changes in stipends, allowances, or honoraria for attending courses or activities.

There are some program changes coming. I wonder if you've had any input on how those changes are being rolled out.

[Jeffrey Cyr]

I think it was before my tenure as executive director. But my understanding is that the consultation with NAFC on some of these criteria changes was very limited.

I think it would behove the officials to actually look at what the real situation on the ground is. The real situation is that you have a friendship centre on reserve, and it has a cost. On what basis should it be excluded?

I don't want to get into a jurisdictional debate. We're trying to serve the needs of the people. It doesn't have to be that way. For example, mortgages, for some reason, weren't allowed to be costed out. So they were encouraging friendship centres to not own their own buildings. Well, that's kind of a reverse logic, in my mind. Why would we do that?

That's my quick answer to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thanks, Ms. Crowder.

Now we'll go to Mr. Clarke, for seven minutes.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to acknowledge Ms. Crowder and Mr. Warkentin for the work they've done on the friendship centres. It's a great job, and keep up the good work.

With regard to my riding, I was in the RCMP for over 18 years, and I have a pretty good understanding, I believe and I hope, of the friendship centres and how they work, specifically in northern Saskatchewan, where I have five friendship centres throughout the region. I understand their important role. They are vital to the community. There are a lot of places where they are the main gathering point for community members.

I have just a couple of questions. Hopefully I'll have enough time.

First, the Government of Canada has the urban aboriginal strategy, which is coming up for renewal in 2012. I know that there's currently some pressure to expand the strategy beyond the 13 current cities of Vancouver, Prince George, Edmonton, and so on. From what I understand, there are over 100 friendship centres throughout Canada. Is there an opportunity here to consider expansion of the UAS by utilizing the friendship centres in smaller cities?

[Jeffrey Cyr]

Yes, I'm aware that the UAS is up for renewal.

I guess that the short answer is yes. Now I'll make it a little more detailed for you.

The UAS has been around since 1997, first as a pilot project, then as a strategy. The friendship centres and the board of the national association have given thought to the urban aboriginal strategy. There are certain urban settings, in the 13 cities, where the UAS works extremely well for some of the friendship centres, and they've had the ability to access some of that. It's been, I would suggest, hit and miss at points.

I think what the National Association of Friendship Centres would like is to be engaged in a deep policy discussion about the urban aboriginal strategy as part of an urban policy discussion that looks at where it can go.

I think the friendship centres are interested in the UAS. We have an existing infrastructure, and it's an existing one that works well. We're in 117 cities. They're all, obviously, urban aboriginal populations. It makes good sense, on the face of it and when you get deeper into the policy questions, to utilize friendship centres somehow in that discussion on how UAS could be renewed and brought forward.

We want to work cooperatively with government on it. We're looking to be engaged. We're going to start putting feelers out on it, understanding that it's up for renewal, and see where the government is at in terms of having discussions on it. We're there to serve the needs of the people, and if the UAS is there to help do that, then we're there to work on it. We think it needs some policy work behind it, though.

That's where we'll leave that.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Okay. I noticed you mentioned some of the services. When I was in northern Saskatchewan, specifically at Île-à-la-Crosse, the friendship centre was able to provide service. One of the services was the head start program, which my son was in for two years. I really noticed a big difference just in his reading level. He has continued with progress in his reading. It has helped him excel through further education. He's now in grade five and reading at a higher level than other students in the same grade, which is great. You can see how the friendship centres are vital even towards education in communities.

I have a question about something you mentioned on the services that you provide. Can you just list some of the services? There are a lot of people who don't understand how the friendship centres work and what types of programs they offer to communities. I understand it's not race-based. They serve all people in all communities. It doesn't matter if they're aboriginal or non-aboriginal.

Now, could you just explain some of the services that are provided?

[Jeffrey Cyr]

Sure. I tend to think of the friendship centres as a spectrum of services for aboriginal and non-aboriginal people alike.

Let's start with the head start program. You're talking about childhood development learning programs and parenting programs. A lot of places will provide child care services in the home, and out-of-home child care services as well. There are aboriginal justice programs run out of friendship centres, restorative justice. There are a lot of cultural events, of course, and a lot of community feasts and community events. That sort of thing happens as well. There are elder support groups. Right in Ottawa, we have a bannock bus that goes around every night and gives food to homeless people in Ottawa. We have a drop-in centre here at 510 Rideau, just down the street.

So these are the sorts of services they provide. There are many more. There are education programs. I'm part of the friendship centre healthy eating and active living program, which is about high rates of diabetes—we're trying to watch it now so it doesn't become a burden on the health care system and oneself later on. So there are nutrition programs as well. It's just a really big panoply of services and programs that are offered at friendship centres. Sports....

[Conrad Saulis]

I'll just add a couple of other things that we're currently working on at the NAFC. We're working on literacy, adult and youth. You mentioned your child's ability to read at a higher level. We're also involved in tobacco cessation, and we're obviously engaged in many health issues, as Jeff said, such as nutrition and diabetes. We're also very actively engaged in wanting to support youth, first of all on a prevention side but also on an intervention side.

I think the spectrum is from the cradle to the eldest people who live in our urban areas. I think friendship centres are very creative, as well, in meeting the needs of various populations. An example is single mothers. A lot of single mothers will leave their home communities for a number of reasons; we know that. They seek support, and friendship centres are the places they turn to.

Friendship centres will also help other organizations become established. Here in Ottawa, the Odawa Friendship Centre was supportive of the establishment of the Wabano Centre for Aboriginal Health. So they know they're not necessarily the be-all and end-all, because they're not health people. Health people need to create other programs and services that are very medically oriented. Yet on the prevention side, friendship centres have a major role.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Clarke.

We have time for two more questions. We'll go first to Ms. Neville for five minutes, and then we'll have one more question.

Go ahead.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for being here this morning.

I have a number of questions. My understanding is that your funding is both through core funding and program funding. Am I correct? The disparity between the percentage of federal funding in each jurisdiction and the provincial funding would in part be related to the amount of programming a friendship centre chooses to do. Is that a fair comment?

[Jeffrey Cyr]

Yes. It's almost solely due to the programming side.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Programming.

I'm from Winnipeg. I've been to the friendship centre there, which you know is a very large and vibrant facility. I'm interested in the gaps in programming that you see a need for, that friendship centres can address. Obviously I'm focusing on Winnipeg, and I'm focusing on some of the prevention programs that are needed for young people who are engaged in all kinds of unsavoury behaviour. I'd be interested in hearing from you what the glaring gaps are—either pick some communities or go nationally—you see friendship centres could address if the resources were in place.

[Jeffrey Cyr]

There are a lot of gaps, so I'll try to pick a couple of the key ones.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Prioritize them.

[Jeffrey Cyr]

Yes. I'll come back to the spectrum of programs that a friendship centre provides for a person's entire life.

One of the programs has to do with employment and labour training and that sort of aspect. There are some programs being run throughout the federal government on this, of course, but I think friendship centres have been engaged spottily on that. I think what we would like to do is have a discussion about the urban economic development agenda and what that actually could look like. I don't think we've had a deep discussion in the Government of Canada about that. There's a gap there.

Part of that gap is also a gap in child care, I would say, for parents who are either in training or starting employment. I have six kids. Child care is a pretty expensive issue in my household. I can imagine it if you were a single mother or a single parent trying to cover your bases for child care while you're getting.... I've recently had stories from Newfoundland and Labrador about people who can get a job but can't go to that job because they don't have child care.

Those two issues run hand in hand.

Another one is housing in the urban setting. Some provincial governments are engaged with our provincial associations; I think B.C. might be one of them, and Ontario a little bit. But for people coming from rural and remote areas and then being in the urban setting, housing is an ongoing issue. I heard you speaking about it with your previous witnesses in a different setting. Housing is an issue in the urban context. There just isn't enough, and it isn't accessible enough.

I'll just keep those two points brief.

Then, of course, on prevention programs, I think we'd like to do a little bit more on sport and physical activity with communities and see what they need to support physical activity for youth. Again, this is driven by personal experience. I'm trying to engage my kids in being healthy. In the urban settings for friendship centres, there is a paucity of programs that we can access and have the community engaged in. Also, I see that where it's successful, it's really successful. It really engages them and grounds them.

I'll leave it at three points.

Conrad.