Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Colleagues and guests, I call this meeting to order. This is the 21st meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Today we have an opportunity to hear from the National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association. I really want to thank each one of you for coming and making yourself available on what was short notice. We appreciate you taking the time to come, and we look forward to your testimony today.

I believe, Leona, you have a submission to read to us, and I'm wondering if you would also introduce your colleagues. We'll turn the floor over to you now.

[Leona Irons, Executive Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association]

It's customary when we speak in a traditional territory to acknowledge that. Before we begin I would like to honour and acknowledge the traditional territory of the Algonquin people. We would also offer our medicine: the sweet grass, the sage, cedar, and tobacco. We hope that the spirit of our ancestors as well as the creator are with us in our presentation and that we have a productive meeting. Meegwetch.

With me today I have Jennifer Copegog, who is the NALMA director for the Ontario Aboriginal Lands Association. We also have our colleague Aaron Louison, director and chair of the Saskatchewan Aboriginal Lands Technicians; and our colleague Joe Sabattis, the NALMA vice-chair of the eastern region and also the chair of the Atlantic Region Aboriginal Lands Association.

Our chairman, Gino Clement, who represents the First Nations Lands Managers Association for Québec and Labrador, sends his regrets; as do our colleagues from the Manitoba region land association, the Land Stewards Association of Alberta, and our Nunavut colleagues, the Planning and Land Administrators of Nunavut.

My name is Leona Irons and I'm from the Curve Lake First Nation. I am the executive director for the association.

Would you like me to begin the presentation?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Ms. Irons, what we will do is turn it over to you for the next number of minutes. Please keep your submission close to ten minutes, and then we will circulate with questions. I'm certain there will be a lot of things we'll want to learn in addition to your testimony, and then we'll have an opportunity to have your colleagues answer those questions as well.

So we'll turn it over to you now for, give or take, ten minutes.

[Leona Irons]

We would like to thank the standing committee for the invitation to speak today. We look upon this as an opportunity to promote awareness of raising professional standards in first nations lands management as well as to draw attention to the need for good lands governance to sustain economic development.

Today we will provide a brief backgrounder on our association, describe to you some of the issues and challenges faced by land management professionals, and highlight our achievements and future endeavours.

The National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association was officially formed in 2000 as a non-profit, non-political organization. NALMA is a technical organization driven by first nations land management professionals. We receive our funding support from the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

I'd like to draw your attention to our membership. I have a powerpoint presentation on that.

Our association comprises seven regional land association chapters, with membership at large from 112 first nations and Inuit communities. We have representation in the Atlantic, Quebec, Labrador, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and Nunavut. We have yet to confirm in our organization representation in the Northwest Territories and the Yukon, but we've established contacts there. We're very pleased to have representation in B.C., where we have eight associate members.

Our members operate in various land programs and regimes. It's interesting to note that specific to our membership, we manage a little over a million hectares of community lands, and with additions of treaty land entitlement and specific claims and additions to reserves, we project this number will increase significantly.

Speaking of our programs and land regimes, some of our members manage their land under the RLEMP program, which is the reserve land environment management program. First nations under that program manage their lands under the Indian Act. We have the First Nations Land Management Act for first nations management of lands under sectoral self-government. Then we have self-government, which is the full control and management of their lands.

I would like to share with you our mission and mandate.

The National Aboriginal Land Managers Association is a national organization of first nations land managers that will actively network towards the enhancement of professional development and technical expertise in the functions of land management, while incorporating first nations values and beliefs in land management and always keeping in mind grassroots practices when dealing with land management.

If you take a look at our mandate, NALMA and our regional chapters work towards providing opportunities in professional development, networking, and technical support that will meet the existing, emerging, and future needs of first nations land managers to efficiently and effectively manage their lands.

We view our mandate as raising professional standards in lands management, promoting good lands government, and advancing sustainable economic development.

What are our issues and challenges? We face many when it comes to lands management, and I'm sure during your study you may already have heard some testimony on the issues and challenges. As a technical organization for first nations land management, we face three major issues or challenges in the scheme of trying to maximize economic development opportunities: we need professional capacity; we need management tools and systems; and we need additional resources in order to adequately support our lands programs.

What have we been doing to address our issues and challenges?

As a young organization, we've achieved many successes. One of our major successes is working in partnership with Aboriginal and Northern Affairs Canada and the University of Saskatchewan in the creation of the first professional lands management certification program.

Our program has two levels. Level one is the indigenous peoples resource management program, developed and delivered by the University of Saskatchewan. This program consists of six degree credit courses that cover general concepts and principles applicable to resource management in various regions.

We have level two, the technical training, developed and delivered by our organization. This program consists of six technical modules specific to land management under the Indian Act. We're very pleased to report that since 2005 we've had certified 68 first nation land managers. My colleagues here are Aaron, who has been certified, as well as Joe.

That's what we've been doing in terms of our professional development. We plan to do more in other specific areas.

As for other achievements, in terms of our networking successes, we've been very fortunate to host seven national gatherings. The purpose of our gatherings is for our first nations and INAC colleagues to receive training and up-to-date information on emerging developments and national policy issues related to lands management. One of the most important events of our gatherings is that we recognize and celebrate land managers' achievements. That's when our certified land managers receive their certification certificates.

In addition to our networking, we have a website and offer our members access to information, tools, and resources.

We are looking to host our eighth national gathering in Iqaluit, Nunavut, hopefully in July of 2012. This will be hosted by our colleagues, the Planning and Land Administrators of Nunavut.

We have had other successes in terms of our technical support services. We are extremely pleased to report that we've been very successful in developing some resource tools. Working in close partnership with first nation land managers and Aboriginal Affairs, both at headquarters and at the regional levels, we were able to develop addition-to-reserve tool kits. Using this tool kit, we now have delivered ATR training to over 100 first nations across Canada. In addition, we've provided each first nation in Canada with a copy of our tool kit. It has been very successful.

To enable first nations economic development initiatives, we are currently developing a reserve land designation tool kit. We also plan to deliver training in the next fiscal year.

We've had many opportunities to participate in various committees to provide our technical expertise. We currently sit on the AFN aboriginal affairs joint working group to provide some technical support to the committee. The joint working group is tasked with improving the addition-to-reserve policy.

Now, given the nature of the lands profession, which can be a very complex subject matter, we find that there is a great need to provide technical support services. In the 2010-11 fiscal year, we received 451 referrals requesting support services on all matters relating to lands management.

The National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association is a first-nation-driven professional organization working towards improving the quality of life for our people. As stewards of the land, we have the important responsibility of ensuring quality lands management to promote sustainable growth and prosperity within our communities.

Like other organizations, we are challenged by fiscal restraints. However, it is the future endeavour of our organization to continue working with willing and productive partners to raise professional standards, solve issues and challenges, and promote good land governance.

To recap, our organization provides our members with three basic mandates: professional development, technical support, and networking opportunities. We find that in terms of economic development, it's the lands technicians at the community level who have to get the lands ready for economic development. In most cases, we also have to monitor the land agreements that are for economic development.

That concludes our presentation. We'd be very open to questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you so much. We do appreciate your testimony today. It's an important and vital portion of our study.

What we will do now is go around the table in rounds of questioning, starting with Ms. Duncan for seven minutes.

Of course, colleagues, we want to make sure that time is allotted for the answer. Please remember, as we start up today, that we want to be sure to allow enough time for the questions to be answered.

Ms. Duncan.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thanks.

Welcome to all four of you. It would have been great if we'd had representatives from all of the areas, but I think you'll probably do a good job answering whatever tough questions we have.

You know what? I think I actually taught at one of the programs. A good friend of mine, Professor Marie-Ann Bowden, helps teach the course, and she invited me in with her to do part of the course on safe drinking water.

It's pretty exciting to have two graduates here. I hope I didn't misinform you too badly.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

My first question is just off the top of my head. We have been meeting with a number of people who are involved in land and resource management for aboriginal communities. One of the organizations we met with was the lands advisory board. Can you clarify for us what the difference is between your organization and the lands advisory board?

As well, you mentioned at the outset that you were formed as a non-profit organization, yet you're funded solely by Aboriginal Affairs. Could you elaborate on your role? Do you set your own priorities? Do you establish your own mandate, what you want to train on, and so forth?

[Leona Irons]

In terms of our organization and the land advisory board, we're two separate entities. There are, however, members under our organization who are with the land advisory board and who manage their land under that. The land advisory board is legislated to manage land under sectoral self-government.

The other question had to do with the funding, did you say, or...? I'm sorry, Linda.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

You informed us that you're established as a non-government organization, but you're funded solely by Aboriginal Affairs. I'm just wondering what your relationship is. Do you set your own priorities—your mandate, what you'll train on, and so forth?

[Leona Irons]

We have a really good, productive working relationship with the Department of Aboriginal Affairs, but our mandate and work plan are established by our members. Then we seek funding from Aboriginal Affairs for that support.

Generally their mandate in terms of land is pretty much the same as ours, to improve the capacity for—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Do you have multi-year funding or do you have to apply each year?

[Leona Irons]

We just got it this year, for two years. We're still ironing out the glitches of that process, but there's an intent to have at least the two years. This is the first year.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay. Thank you....

Go ahead.

[Leona Irons]

Thanks, Linda.

Is there anything you want to add to that?

I know that Aaron is operating under the First Nations Land Management Act.

[Aaron Louison, Director, Chair of the Saskatchewan Aboriginal Lands Technicians, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association]

To some point, we are. We are under the First Nations Land Management Act. We are also under the reserve land and environmental management program.

We have a special case with regard to our northern boundary. Our northern boundary has eroded—we gained land and we lost land in the valley there. For the lands that come under the FNLMA, we are able to get a legal description. In our first nation, it's Kahkewistahaw 72 A-1 to H. Those lands have just become reserve status, and we took control over them through our land code with the help of the Lands Advisory Board. Our community had voted on the code and accepted it, and I believe it was just signed in December.

The main reserve of our first nation is under RLEMP. Because we can't get a legal description for that northern boundary, we have to leave that under the Indian Act regime for now until we get that dispute settled. I believe they're talking about it now. I'm hoping it's coming soon, because we do have a big portion of our first nation lands that we cannot administer, and it kind of holds us back in that regard. It restricts us, that's what it does. However, under the First Nations Land Management Act, we now control what goes on there, and that type of stuff. We manage it right at the—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Can I ask a question, Mr. Louison? You're obviously very experienced in doing this, and this ties into a question I was going to ask all of you.

Do you train first nation people in land management under the Indian Act, the code, and first nation final agreements? Do you do it right across the board, or just the land code or...?

[Leona Irons]

No, our understanding is that the Lands Advisory Board is tasked with the responsibility to build capacity under the framework. We do parts of it because our members are under that land regime. That's why we have the level one training with the University of Saskatchewan. Our technical is specific to the Indian Act. When you do get certified, you're like a general practitioner in lands management, so that you can go into whatever land regime.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

It's exciting to hear that you have the certification program. I think that's really good, too, for other first nations that might want to hire you to train and so forth.

When you get the certification, do you qualify to join the association of municipal planners?

[Leona Irons]

No, we haven't reached that far yet. In the early days, we sat on committees with the planners, but we want to be able to reach out, because we find that's important.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you. Unfortunately, my time's up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Ms. Duncan.

Mr. Rickford, for seven minutes.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

This is a meeting, I must say, that I was really looking forward to in the sense that we have a certification process here that goes a long way to build capacity. One of my colleagues is going to try to break that down for us.

I just want to address two areas. One, what are the challenges that land managers face under the Indian Act? And two, could you speak in more general terms about the capacity-building programs—the good things and some of the challenges?

With respect to the challenges facing land managers under the Indian Act, Leona, we have identified a few things in going through the literature. One would be that the land tenure is dissimilar to that off reserve. I suspect that would be a disincentive to investment. Another would be the lack of a reserve land registry system, which I think makes it difficult to prioritize and guarantee interests in land. I know that there are others.

Could you perhaps expound on those two very briefly—we only have seven minutes—and identify if there are any other major ones?

[Leona Irons]

For other challenges, I'm going to look to my colleagues to speak about that.

[Jennifer Copegog, Chair, Ontario Aboriginal Lands Association; Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association]

I'd like to talk about what is good land governance, and hopefully it will answer your question.

We say that it has five characteristics. The first is sustainability, which we determine as a long-term commitment from local and external governing authorities to support land and economic projects.