Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Jan. 29th, 2013

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

We will turn to Mr. Rickford now, for seven minutes.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses. I appreciate your submission and your proposed amendments for our consideration.

I want to move from the consultation process this morning to talk a little bit about environmental stewardship. I know that with respect to NUPPAA, this is one of the main thrusts—I think, Ryan, we can frame it that way—in an effort to establish a more streamlined system for environmental assessments and provide additional measures for environmental protection.

As I understand it, in order to accomplish this, NUPPAA proposes to confirm and clarify the role of NIRB in clauses 18 to 27, to establish a process to determine, inter alia, the possible ecosystemic impact of a proposed project, which is in clause 88, to provide monitoring programs for ecosystem impacts, which is in clause 135, and to establish enforcement mechanisms as they're laid out in clauses 209 to 219.

I want to unpack that a little bit. I would start by asking which stages of a development project trigger an environmental or ecosystemic assessment.

Would you be able to answer that, Ryan?

[Ryan Barry]

Certainly I can take a stab at it.

As I explained before, in Nunavut we have two levels of assessment: screening and review. The majority of projects that have been coming to us are driven by the resource development sector, mineral resource development.

Given the current list of projects that are exempt from the requirement for screening, what the level is at is that usually once an exploration company starts actively drilling in an area, that's basically when they start triggering an environmental assessment requirement, a screening by our board.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

That's the ecosystemic assessment.

[Ryan Barry]

Yes.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Okay. It's kind of a different word in play here, so I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

Then there are the criteria used to evaluate whether a project will have a significant ecosystemic impact during the project. What criteria are used to evaluate whether this project will have...? I mean, surely to goodness that happens well before the drilling starts to occur, obviously.

As well, who's involved in the decision-making process at the stage that you're going to tell me about?

[Ryan Barry]

Focusing on the screening level of assessment, the things that we look at I think to a large degree are laid out in the bill under what areas we have to look at for significant changes. We look at the—

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

And you feel they were laid out fairly clearly, Ryan, in your—

[Ryan Barry]

I think they were laid out fairly clearly, specifically in the section dealing with amendments to projects and judging the significance of those amendments.

For every one of the projects that come through NIRB for screening, a decision on whether or not the project should go ahead or be subject to further review is made by our board after consultation with the public in an open public commenting period, where all parties see the same information and are able to give their comments and concerns to the board for consideration.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Okay.

In answering the question of who's involved in the decision-making process at this stage....

[Ryan Barry]

It depends on where you draw the line with the decision. The ultimate decision rests with the Government of Canada or the Government of Nunavut ministers.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Okay. That's important, so thank you for that.

What steps are taken to ensure that the need to streamline environmental processes do not adversely affect the environmental protections? It's kind of a higher level question. At 30,000 feet we'll just say.

[Ryan Barry]

I think any time there is a clear process in place, and all parties understand what the rules are and they're playing from the same rule book, then it's clear that the ultimate goal there is to ensure that the projects that do go through go through the right way.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Okay.

Ryan and Elizabeth, the reason I'm asking this question is that when you take a look at the parts of Bill C-47, and of course we heard this loud and clear in our visit to the territories, the concern from industry was that there were different circumstances prevailing for different development projects. That raised a myriad of challenges, with issues ranging from investor confidence to environmental regulations or processes, if you will, to who was participating in whatever circumstances were prevailing. That's the reason I'm asking that question.

Do you feel that the piece affecting Nunavut addresses this environmental piece adequately in that regard?

Does this satisfy the test for you, Elizabeth, in terms of it being a streamlined process that's clear to everybody, fair to everybody?

I see a nod.

[Ryan Barry]

I think we're in general agreement that.... As explained in our statements, we view the Nunavut system as already working very well. It already is comparatively streamlined as compared with most any other Canadian jurisdiction, certainly the northern jurisdiction. We do view this as a further improvement upon that system overall.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Finally, what steps do you take to ensure that Nunavummiut participate in the environmental assessment process? Take me through that.

[Ryan Barry]

Certainly. I'll try to do it quickly in the interest of time, as there are many means by which we do it.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

That's fair.

[Ryan Barry]

For a screening level assessment, it's done within 45 days, so obviously the opportunities are more limited. Everything is sent out via e-mail notices. People are aware that they can access all the information through our website. They're invited to give their comments in any way, shape, or form, through calling us toll-free or e-mailing us anything about the project. We make sure the notice of a screening gets to all the people it needs to get to in the communities.

For a review level assessment, during the course of a review we will visit several times the communities that would be affected by a project. We will work with individuals and community groups to ensure that they understand the process and how to participate, and that they fully feel empowered to do so. They're strongly encouraged to get their voice across, again through any means, through written means, through talking to us over the phone, and through presenting to the board at a final hearing as well.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Are you satisfied with that access?

[Ryan Barry]

I think we spoke earlier about the ability of the board currently to have that discretion over its process and how that has really led to a process where Nunavummiut have expressly stated their support for it. It's a made in Nunavut process which they feel really does reflect the realities on the ground and the need for really talking to individuals at the community level.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you.

I want to thank the witnesses for coming before the committee.

I want to touch on the participant process. Thank you for outlining a very thorough public process. It sounds like you have support in Nunavut to continue that process, although I have to wonder; we can talk about a process being fair on paper, but if there isn't funding to continue to do that process, the question then becomes how fair is that process if there's no money available?

In that light, I want to touch on something you said, Mr. Barry. You indicated that in 2004 there was an amendment to the land claims agreement that changed the funding that was available for people to apply to be involved in the process. Do I have that correct?