Evidence of meeting #2 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Mumilaaq Qaqqaq NDP Nunavut, NU
To clarify Jordan's principle, is it something that applies right now to first nations?
You mentioned there would be a more specific Inuit one. Is there also one for the Métis? Will there be three different types or forms of Jordan's principle for our indigenous groups?
12:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Jordan's principle was first developed for first nations on-reserve, and the reason the federal government was asked to jump in was that we were seen as the responsible jurisdiction.
Normally, Jordan's principle applies to all jurisdictions. Jordan's principle says that whoever you are, when you get the call, you should act, and not question whether you have or don't have the jurisdiction. So it also applies to the provinces. You may want to remind them.
For Inuit, we're working with ITK on the child first initiative in the north. We're working with them on ways to address the needs of the Inuit kids in the north. It is not necessarily Jordan's principle, which is the way we apply it with first nations. It is an initiative that is more dedicated to the Inuit.
In some ways, Jordan's principle gives back authorities to the federal government, which I'm not sure is necessarily where we want to go in the long-term, because it implies that people should call the federal government when a decision has to be made. It's not necessarily totally aligned with self-government, so we need to make sure that when we implement Jordan's principle, we respect the fact that first nations, Inuit, and Métis want to make those decisions for themselves. That, for me, is the next step for Jordan's principle. It includes the Inuit, because they have, as you know, an agreement.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Mumilaaq Qaqqaq NDP Nunavut, NU
I would also suggest that “Inuit” directly translates to “people”, so when you say “Inuit people”, you're just saying “people people”.
12:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I know, and if I include an “s”, it doesn't make sense because it's already “people”. I know that, and I don't use the “s” in French, even if I'm told I should.
Thanks.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Mumilaaq Qaqqaq NDP Nunavut, NU
I've heard of ITK a lot. I'm wondering if there are any other groups that are Inuit organizations or representing communities that are majority Inuit, or is it just ITK primarily that you work with?
12:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
No, for example, on the housing initiatives I mentioned before, the money goes directly to the regions; it doesn't go to ITK. ITK doesn't deliver services for Inuit people—
12:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
We engage with them, but we don't necessarily go through ITK to manage those services.
12:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
We work with Makivik, NTI, the Inuvialuit...and we also work with others.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bob Bratina
Just let me interrupt for a moment.
We try to stay on time with the length of the questions because on very busy days, we will in fact run out of time. We have a little extra time today, so is it the pleasure of the committee to continue with further rounds of questioning? Do we have more questions?
12:20 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bob Bratina
Okay. We'll do another round of five minutes, beginning with the Conservative Party.
Who would like to go? Mr. Schmale.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
I appreciate the departmental officials hanging in there—nicely done.
I want to start with your departmental plan for 2019-20. On page 17, it reads:
In respect to health, social and education services, there is a risk that the Department will not sufficiently address the needs and aspirations of Indigenous communities, such as adopting processes and services, in a way that is supportive of partnerships and nation-to-nation building.
It goes on to talk about your departmental result indicators, your targets and your dates to achieve those targets. When talking about tuberculosis and the incidence rate among those living on first nations reserves, you have your target of a three-year average of 22 cases of TB per 100,000 of population, and you have a date to achieve that target of 2028.
Maybe a point of clarification for me is that there are active vaccines and medications that can combat TB. According to your website, there are are 40% more cases of TB among those living on reserve than for non-indigenous people. Can you explain why it is taking so long to get to zero and what the barriers are?
12:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Overcrowded housing is probably the most important one. Yes, housing issues are probably the most significant one. We see it in many communities, but what you see sometimes in some communities is that there's almost a crisis. In most cases you also see it with the Inuit population in the north, in Nunavut. Most of the time it's related to housing, which is one of the reasons we need to focus on housing across the country. That explains why the government has also focused on housing at the same time it has set this target for tuberculosis, because if you really want to address the long-term issues with tuberculosis, you need prevention, you need people to know and to address the situation.
We have cases where kids were sent to the hospital and it took too much time for people to discover that they had tuberculosis because people at the hospital didn't believe it. We need awareness among the population and also in the health services. We also need to make sure that the housing issues are addressed. If you have houses with mould and overcrowded housing, and if people smoke too, there are different factors as you can imagine that contribute to that.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
This housing issue did just start today. It's been going on for decades.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
What is being done? I know you mentioned what the government is doing, but what is the schedule to get these units built and actually functioning so you don't have these overcrowded situations.
12:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
If you look at our numbers at the moment with CMHC, you will see probably close to 16,000 houses repaired and built. That's basically what we have in terms of funding. Our annual budget on housing has almost been doubled. Is it enough? We're still talking about what the 10-year plans for housing would be, and that's, of course, for first nations on reserve. We have developed for the first time a 10-year initiative with the Inuit organizations for Inuit people, and we have one for the Métis. It's also going to take a dedicated effort by provinces and territories. As I said, we are catching up from being underfunded for years and years. There's a gap there, which some have assessed at 40,000 units, that needs to be addressed before we catch up. It's going to take a few years. We are building at a rhythm that we have not built for years and years.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Continuing on the health care part of it, on page 11 of your departmental plan, it reads, “Making further investments to provide nursing services 24/7 in remote and isolated communities”.
Could you give this committee an update of where you are on that goal?
12:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
We have nurses stationed in all communities. Some are our employees, and some are employees of first nations. We provide primary health care services in communities that are too far from the provincial system; otherwise, we provide public health.
Our challenge in this is recruitment and retention. It's making sure that we find nurses. It's making sure that, as much as possible, we find nurses who are first nations, Inuit and Métis, and making sure that they stay there. Indeed, one of the biggest objectives is making sure that we have nurses who will stay there. I've seen beautiful examples of people who have been working for more than 35 years in the same places in Nunavik, for example, but that's not always the case. How do you make sure that you've got enough nurses and that they can operate 24-7?
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Do you find that same challenge with health care professionals, tracking and retaining health care professionals as, say, with skilled trades or teachers, and that kind of thing?
12:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
It's the same with teachers and less so, maybe, with skilled trades. Of course, for health professionals it is a challenge, and you need to make sure that nurses and teachers have a house or place to live and find it to be a value proposition that they want. A lot of them do that because they like it. They find it interesting and different.
A lot of first nations, Inuit and Métis who have diplomas would like to go back to their community or communities, but how do you make sure there's more for them with a diploma, and how do you make sure that you recruit more and you keep them there? It's a relationship of trust, as you know, that health professionals develop with their clients or the people they work with. It's not different from what it is with doctors in my area.