Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2024

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—because I want the answer.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I know you're coming in from another committee, but would you show a little bit of respect to the minister, Mr. Genuis?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

She's a minister; you're not. Let her answer, okay?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We are into debate, but I will say, as I noted, that we ask the minister and we allow the minister to answer.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes.

Just the number is all I need.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'll turn the floor to the minister.

Continue with your response, please.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

To understand the indigenous business directory, you have to understand what it's for. The indigenous business directory is to provide assurances to other departments, including Public Services and Procurement Canada, that the people on that list are indigenous. That is the sole purpose of the list. It's about indigenating.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, what Mr. Yeo told the public accounts committee yesterday was that the purpose of the program is not to benefit indigenous communities but only to benefit the particular individuals who receive the contracts. What you've just said effectively confirms that. It sounds like you have no information about whether indigenous people or communities benefited beyond the two people who got $7.9 million for no work.

Of all of Dalian's contracts totalling at least $91 million under your government, did all of those $91 million of contracts benefit from the indigenous procurement set-aside, and what percentage of the subcontractors were indigenous?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I'm kind of annoyed by this question, because it implies that if an Italian person owned a company, then only Italian people should benefit from that company's business. In that is an implicit, I would say, stereotype.

Indigenous business owners are just like non-indigenous business owners. Some indigenous business owners have many indigenous employees—in fact, many businesses do—but indigenous business owners—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, I'm going to spare you the false indignation here, okay?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

—are just like non-indigenous business owners, and they're looking to turn a profit.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Let the minister respond.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Your question is implicitly—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

No, Mr. Chair. I'm going to jump in in accordance with the rules.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

—systemically discriminatory.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Of course. Here we go. Here we go, Minister.

Your government faces intense heat over this corruption scandal, and your response, your only response, is not to answer the question but to accuse other people of racism. This is so typical of your government.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

My response, Mr. Genuis—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm going to finish, Minister. Here are the facts.

Dalian is a two-person company. They don't have employees. There are just two of them. Does it seem to you to be a problem that this company can get close to 100 million dollars' worth of contracts from your government? They don't do any work; they subcontract. There's no tracking of whether indigenous people actually benefit. There's no tracking of whether other indigenous businesses receive subcontracts. Simply by being the middleman, they are able to claim this massive set-aside when there is no tracking of benefits to indigenous communities across the country.

Don't you think that's a problem?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I would say that whatever happens, contractors should be held accountable, regardless of whether they are indigenous or not. The rules don't change for an indigenous contract.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Do you think this is an abuse of the indigenous procurement program? Do you think this is an abuse of the intention of the program?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

There are only 10 seconds left. Let's let the minister respond.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I would say that if there are people on the list who are not indigenous, it is an abuse. That is why Dalian is suspended with us.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You are fine with what happened with Dalian.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay. We're out of time on this one. I'm going to have to move to the next person.

Next up, I have Mr. Carr for his five minutes.