Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 31st, 2023

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you again to the presenters.

This is a very sensitive subject. I come from the Northwest Territories. We have 15 sets of negotiations going on, some with the Dene and some with the Métis. Several negotiating tables involve both. I grew up hearing about the treaties and hearing how sacred they are. Many elders view it as an agreement, a peace and friendship agreement, between two countries. However, I'm also very aware and hear on a regular basis that the Métis also signed agreements.

Chief Desjarlais, I want to get you to talk a little bit about your Confederacy of Treaty Six First Nations, their goals and how they want the treaty to be respected. You guys also want the right to self-determination to be honoured and respected. Can you tell me how that is different from what the Métis are asking for?

[Chief Greg Desjarlais]

I just want to say that it's pretty hard to be first nations in Alberta, because it seems like we're not recognized by the province. It's like another—God rest his soul—Jordan Anderson again. We're bounced between jurisdictions.

Do you know what? Our common goal is to have clean, safe drinking water with no mould, an economy with people working, addictions-free nations and the utilization our resources to have ambulances. Some of our communities don't even have ambulances. It's 2023. As I said, first nations have always been part of the solution. We were never the problem. I think that's the goal of self-determination. We never surrendered our resources. I said it was unilaterally accomplished back in the 1930s. Do you think the first nations would do that? I don't think so.

Anyway, that's what it is. It's being able to stand on our feet in alcohol-free and meth-free reserves, practising our sacred ceremonies and not being thrown in jail for doing that. That would be kind of like self-determination, I think.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you.

I think all of us who are indigenous and non-indigenous strive to have healthy communities with healthy people in them. I totally hear you. I sense the emotion on the subject of being treated with respect, being treated honourably and being treated fairly. History hasn't shown that.

Is that part of what is making it difficult for you to accept that the Métis would have any type of rights? Is it because of the situation your band or tribe is in, or has been in, and how they've been treated?

[Chief Greg Desjarlais]

I think that Canada should make all the wrongs right first. My fear is that, when I'm cranky, you'll just go to the Métis and ask for consultation on my lands and my projects.

Do you know what? We forgot.... I'm going to say it. The first nations were here. Then came the foreigners, the settlers, and then came the Métis. We've forgotten about all this, and that's the way it is if nobody teaches it. I'll share that. There is some apprehension from my nation because I see a huge problem coming down the road.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I don't know much—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. McLeod, I'm going to have to jump in. We just reached the end of the five minutes, and we're going to need to go to our next questioner.

We're going to go to Madame Bérubé for two minutes and 30 seconds.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Desjarlais, you said that Bill C‑53 would create two tiers of governments.

Do you think the interests of first nations and the claims of Métis have to be at odds with one another?

[Chief Greg Desjarlais]

Like I said earlier about the projects in our area, the resources, the land and so forth, it's a divisive document. It may not directly say it in there, but that's what's going to happen.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

What position would you have taken had you been consulted on Bill C‑53 beforehand?

[Chief Greg Desjarlais]

Like I said earlier, you have to talk to the first nations. I think that's important, that we have our input involved in transcribing these documents. There probably wouldn't be as much push-back if the first nations were being heard.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

What does the CEO of Matawa First Nations have to say?

[David Paul Achneepineskum]

Certainly, I totally agree with what my friend is saying. We are both treaty people. As far as we're concerned, with regard to our lands, we were the original inhabitants of the lands, and we are still there.

Look at, for example, water. One of our communities, for over 30 years, is on boiled water. Do you think any community or municipality in Canada would put up with that? No, it wouldn't.

Deal with first nations issues first. Otherwise, you're not dealing with anything. You're just completely messing up the first nations again, over and over. Deal with us. We're willing to work with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're going to stop there and go to Ms. Idlout, who will have the last two and a half minutes in this round.

Ms. Idlout, the floor is yours.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, what you are saying here is that it's always a struggle for us indigenous people, for Inuit and first nations. We have been put through real hardships, and that is so true. The Métis people have also had struggles and hardships similar to what we have suffered. When our rights are mentioned in Canada, it means all people. It means Inuit, first nations and Métis.

With that consideration, it seems that Métis rights should also be honoured. I understand what you are saying and I know that it's been a struggle, but we need to live in peace and work together again. If the bill is passed, would you be willing to work together alongside the Métis nations as well?

[David Paul Achneepineskum]

No, we didn't create the issue with the Métis. Within the Indian Act...infant tribesmen, women losing status when they married a non-indigenous person. That's where the Métis issue came about within our area.

It's up to Canada to resolve this Métis issue in another way, but don't use first nations again. You're putting the fault on first nations if this Métis Bill C-53 does not come about. We're not the ones at fault. It's the Government of Canada, and you have to resolve it yourself.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you. We're at the end of the time.

We're almost at the end of our meeting time today. I'd like to thank both of our witnesses on this panel for your testimony and for your insights from your perspective.

Chief Desjarlais, you mentioned the time restrictions. It is a pretty rigid process, and I apologize for that. I think I mentioned that we can receive briefs, so if you have additional comments, please submit them to the clerk.

Colleagues, on that, there is one small item. A few witnesses have asked about submitting written briefs. I wasn't on the committee at the start of this session, but this committee, in particular, adopted a limit of five pages. Most committees have a limit of 10 pages for briefs, and I have had some witnesses ask if they could do up to 10 pages. It is a deviation from what was adopted at the start of the session for the committee.

Do we have agreement to allow witnesses to submit up to 10 pages?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

For this study, we'll do up to 10 pages, and we can revisit it for other studies in the future. Thank you for the clarification.

Colleagues, thank you so much. The meeting is adjourned.