Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2023

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

To be crystal clear and to dispel any myths, misconceptions or erroneous statements we've heard here, being Métis is not about having mixed ancestry with first nations. It's about distinct communities. Is that correct?

[Cassidy Caron]

“Métis” does not mean “mixed”.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

You have a minute left.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Do you expand on that? I think it was very thorough.

[Cassidy Caron]

Sure. I'll even talk more about the strength of our Métis registries, in that you have to be distinct from....

Many of our Métis registries use a system that audits our registries against INAC's registry for status first nations in order to make sure there is no overlap and that it is separate and beyond. When we say they are objectively verifiable or have been audited.... There are a number of processes that can show you the strength of our Métis registry.

Once again, it's so important for us to say here that, as an indigenous nation, we have the right to determine who our citizens are. We have the right to determine who belongs. That is a right the Métis nation holds.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

You have 30 seconds.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you for your testimony. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

We're now going to Madame Bérubé.

Welcome, Ms. Bérubé.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for joining us at the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs, Ms. Caron.

Ms. Caron, earlier, regarding Bill C‑53, you were talking about reconciliation. The first nations who oppose it are talking about broken reconciliation.

How do you interpret these words?

[Cassidy Caron]

I'm going to ask for clarification on the question.

Are you saying first nations are trying to move away from reconciliation?

I'm sorry. I'm just seeking clarification.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

They oppose this bill and speak of it as a breach of reconciliation.

[Cassidy Caron]

That's a very interesting question.

I know reconciliation means many different things to many different people. It means different things to different communities. It means different things to each one of our citizens. There are different processes that people consider to be part of reconciliation. It has, of course, been a buzzword of recent governments. It presents the opportunity to build a relationship and move forward in a good way.

Bill C-53 can be interpreted as reconciliation in action, since we are moving towards the recognition and implementation of Métis rights. That's something our communities, people, leaders and citizens have been working towards for generations.

Some would say it fits within the box of reconciliation. Others would say it is just the right thing to do. Whether or not to label it “reconciliation” is up to the individual. For first nations to decide they want to move away from using the term “reconciliation”.... It's up to them to do that as well. I wouldn't force anybody to use a word they are uncomfortable using.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

On the other hand, some Métis communities have spoken out against the bill.

What do you say to these communities?

[Cassidy Caron]

Absolutely. Métis people have the right to choose. Again, this bill is only about the three Métis governments that are named in it, and Métis citizens have the right to choose who represents them. I think it is something that is very important to say.

Métis people really do value democracy. We know that Métis people have the right to choose that. In our instance, for the four Métis governments that comprise the Métis National Council, they total about 160,000 registered Métis citizens who chose those governments to represent them. We know, of course, there is opposition in certain provinces, say perhaps in Alberta, but it's important to recognize that 65,000 registered Métis citizens chose the Métis Nation of Alberta to represent them as their government.

We stand firm that everybody has the right to choose, and this is the pathway that our Métis governments are taking to implement this. We hope to see this piece of legislation fulfill that promise that has been promised to us for the past 40 years and talked about for generations before.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Can you tell us about the impact the bill would have in your community?

[Cassidy Caron]

I would love to.

As I said in my introduction, my family comes from St. Louis and Batoche, Saskatchewan. I live in Ontario right now. I cannot be represented by the Métis Nation-Saskatchewan. Once the self-government agreements are fully implemented, I would then have the right to choose the Métis Nation-Saskatchewan to represent me as my government because those are my homelands.

My family comes from a really historic part of the Métis nation homeland. My family contributed to so much history. The chair mentioned the Batoche National Historic Site. The one homestead that still stands on those protected grounds is the homestead of my great-great-grandfather. Those lands are so sacred to the Métis because those are the lands where our ancestors fought for, as I said in my introduction, what we are still fighting for today: to preserve the Métis way of life, to govern our people in the way that we know they want to be governed, to take care of our people in the way that we can take care of them and to take care of our children in the ways that we know how to take care of our children.

This piece of legislation is moving us forward in a way that we have not yet been able to, and it would be making history. It would be setting things right, and it would be truly meaningful to me as a Métis woman and, I know, to my family and my ancestors as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

There are 30 seconds left.

Thank you, Ms. Bérubé.

We will now go to Ms. Idlout.

When you're ready, you will have the floor, for six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik, Iksivautaq. Thank you, Chair.

Qujannamiik to the witnesses for coming here today. I'm very excited to have you.

I'm very much of the view that, just like first nations and Inuit, Métis do have a right to self-determination. I think this bill attempts to recognize that right so that, as self-governing nations, your nations will also be recognized, and Ontario, Saskatchewan and Alberta will be able to make laws that impact their people. I completely understand that.

We also as a committee have been hearing a lot of concerns about first nations' and other Métis' rights being infringed upon if this bill were to pass, so I'm going to be asking a few questions to help maybe educate us more about what this bill could mean. For example, I understand that the three Métis nations as well as you mentioned earlier that you believe in UNDRIP and that it's a good thing that UNDRIP is included in this bill.

Have you read article 19 of UNDRIP?

[Cassidy Caron]

I'm sure I have. I just don't know them by heart, but I have it right here with me.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

I will read it very quickly. It says:

States shall consult and cooperate in good faith with the indigenous peoples concerned through their own representative institutions in order to obtain their free, prior and informed consent before adopting and implementing legislative or administrative measures that may affect them.

This is an important article. You have talked about the duty to consult, which is a standard that you say hasn't been reached yet.

If you believe in UNDRIP, do you think that article 19 is being implemented during this process?

[Cassidy Caron]

I absolutely do, because what's really important about article 19 is that “States shall consult and cooperate in good faith” on “measures that will affect them”.

This piece of legislation only affects Métis governments that are named within this piece of legislation. Since Bill C-53 does not impact or affect other indigenous peoples, there was no trigger that required Canada to consult with anybody else on it.

It's really important to know that it only affects those three Métis governments and the collectivities that those three Métis governments are comprised of, and that's exactly what article 19 does. I do think that this bill has met article 19 of UNDRIP.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

What would you say to the first nations and to other Métis settlements who say that their rights are potentially being infringed upon and they feel their article 19 rights have not been respected?

[Cassidy Caron]

I would say, first and foremost, that I hope that those individuals saying those things have read the legislation and have read the self-government agreements that were signed by our Métis governments and Canada, because not only within the legislation does it say that it affects only those three Métis governments, but within the self-government agreements as well there are clauses that say that these agreements will have no affect on anybody except these Métis governments.

For example, even within the Métis Nation of Alberta self-government agreement, there is a clause that says that the title has no affect on Alberta Métis settlements. There are clauses within these agreements already that state that these will have no effect on them, so essentially what I say is that there has been, unfortunately, a lot of misinformation that has been shared throughout this committee process. Qujannamiik for always asking the hard questions about showing in the legislation where it will have an effect on people who are not in this legislation, because that's what's really important here. This legislation only impacts those three Métis governments, and there are clauses that say it will not affect anybody else.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

In the bill, in clause 8 on page 4, there is a sentence that says, “The Government of Canada recognizes that a Métis government set out in column 1 of the schedule is an Indigenous governing body that is authorized to act on behalf of the Métis collectivity set out in column 2”.

The part I want to ask you about is the question of whether those identified in that schedule are authorized. How would you help support whether they are authorized, knowing that there are Métis settlements in places like Alberta that might dispute that?