Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 11th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

It would need to be in writing and submitted—

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

In writing.... Right.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Then we would work to see if it's in the appropriate place.

I've been advised, there is the possibility of a line conflict. Looking at CPC-3.2, that would have to be considered in deciding if the amendment would be accepted or not.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

The process would simply be to make sure that we get it in writing and get it translated, but we have to do that before we move on to a new clause. If I needed to, I would need to just maybe have a minute to do that and to just clarify that there's not an issue with something else.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Yes. The advice would be to work through the legislative counsel to make sure the wording is correct, and then, at the will of the committee, we could stand clause 8 while we're waiting for that to come in.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

It wouldn't have to happen before we get to—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

No. We can stand clause 8 and continue on with the review of the legislation. Then, when you get your amendment, we can come back to clause 8.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Would that be a process that would satisfy all?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Yes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Okay.

I think I'm going to let it rest there for now, because I think there's that option. I think there's also an option because we do clause 2 at the end, which is the definitions, so we could come back and revisit this under the definitions at the end as well. I think that would be an option. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Just to clarify, it's not at the very end, but it's—

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

It's later.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

—just before the very end. Yes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

We haven't done clause 2 yet. We skipped that and moved it—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That's correct. Yes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I'm going to let my argument stand at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

All right.

I have Mr. Schmale next on my speaking list.

I'm sorry. We're still on clause 8 and not on the amendment.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Right. Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay. Go ahead.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the officials.

As we figure this whole thing out, I appreciate the answers.

Hearing what was just said, just so everyone knows, whether watching or listening at home or in this room, the goal through the testimony is to hear the pros of this bill, as well as some of the concerns we've received from different groups. When we hear a critique or criticism, and you can see this in our amendments, we're trying to alleviate some of those concerns so that we could have maybe a broader acceptance of this piece of legislation that seems to be raising a bit of conflict, if you will.

What my friend and colleague just mentioned was this definition. Perhaps it comes later on when we actually define it, if that's possible. You touched on it a bit, and I just want to drill down a little more into that.

Could the wording be specific of Métis governments? I recognize they are an indigenous government, but I think that's what the settlements were really concerned about, saying it has the potential, I guess, for the Métis Nation of Alberta to require that settlement members be part of MNA, even if they may want to. Maybe they don't want to, but there was that potential flag raised that it could impact the settlements.

I wonder if we might be best to potentially get a definition or even change the wording to specifically mention.... If you want to use “Indigenous governing body”, I get that. Maybe we should take the time to define that.

Again, I go back to when we were implementing the UN declaration. One issue we saw was that “free, prior and informed consent” was not defined. I still maintain that if we had taken the time to drill down in this committee to define that, or if we had even brought in experts, such as yourselves, to help further define that language, we might have avoided some of the issues we've run into now. I think there's a question in there. I'm pretty sure there was.

Could we either further define it or switch the language to “Métis governing body” or something to that effect?

[Julia Redmond]

At the risk of repeating myself from before, this provision already does recognize that the Métis governments listed in the schedule represent the Métis collectivity listed in the same schedule. That notion that you raised of “can we bring in the idea of a Métis government” is included in here.

It's written that:

The Government of Canada recognizes that a Métis government set out in column 1 of the schedule is an Indigenous governing body

On the federal understanding of it, it doesn't broaden the term “Indigenous governing body”. It does make reference to the specific category of indigenous governing body as in the Métis governments covered by this bill. Unless my colleagues have anything else, I have nothing to add.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Could you repeat that Ms. Redmond?

[Julia Redmond]

Sure.

What I was trying to describe is that the concept of a Métis government is already within this paragraph. If there's a concern about “Indigenous governing body” somehow being read to be too broad, the text of this is laid out in such a way that it doesn't broaden it. It applies what can be a broad term to a specific context. It says a Métis government listed here is an indigenous governing body.

[Michael Schintz]

The one point I wanted to add.... I do know I am supposed to address the chair. It just feels awkward.

The one point I wanted to add, Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We are fairly flexible here, as long as things are going respectfully.

Please have the conversation.