Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on April 22nd, 2010

[Alexandra Bugailiskis]

He is very popular with the lower classes, who have seen some material benefits during his presidency, and we are the first to acknowledge those efforts. What we take umbrage with is the fact that such changes require the suppression of basic human rights and democratic rights. We believe it is possible to have such change and still respect individual rights.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I have just a couple of minutes before I share my time with my colleague.

I noted in the brief provided to us by the Library of Parliament the punishments of the media for criticizing public officials. There is talk here of imprisonment of between six and 30 months for people who say things that are insulting to the president or to lower-ranking officials. There is talk about police corruption. You noted in your opening remarks that there are unlawful killings. How are these things reported? Are there enough resources available to report on these things? Do we have a good idea of what's going on, or is our view kind of blinded by a lack of complete information?

[Alexandra Bugailiskis]

Our embassy is extremely active in Caracas. On a regular basis, on an almost daily basis, it meets with various civil society groups. It obviously listens to the media, and it goes out into the streets. We're well served in the sense of the degree of information. There are still a number of groups that do get to visit Venezuela and come back and report to us either at the embassy there or here, although, as we were mentioning earlier, we are concerned with the fact that they would not allow the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights to come for a visit.

You can always use more resources--there is no doubt--but I think we do have a fairly good understanding and grasp of developments within the country. The items you have referred to from my presentation have been drawn from those reports or from reports by non-governmental organizations active in Venezuela.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thanks for being here.

I want to express the deep concern of every member here about the Jewish minority there. In fact, I've heard right in my constituency office from those who are trying to immigrate to Canada.

I'm really concerned when an interior justice minister says he feels the police department there is responsible for 15% to 20% of the country's crimes, and the most violent ones. To take it even a step further, you mentioned in your remarks that Minister Kent had talked about Oswaldo Álvarez Paz, who was taken into custody. When even the elites are not exempt from this kind of punitive measure, that tells me there's quite an iron fist developing as far as anybody's capability to speak out and exercise freedom of expression or human rights goes.

You talked specifically about the Organization of American States, and you said you believed the OAS could and should take an active role in providing support to strengthen nascent or fragile democratic institutions. How would the OAS do that? What tools do they have at their fingertips? How would they go about that activity?

[Alexandra Bugailiskis]

Thank you very much for that question.

When we joined the Organization of American States over 20 years ago, one of the first measures Canada took was to establish a unit for the promotion of democracy. It has different names now, but that office has continued to develop and grow. A lot of the expertise so far has been on the observation of elections. The OAS has become very good and very strong in that regard. I think that's a fundamental building block of good democracies.

What we've always promoted, and continue to promote, is that we think the Organization of American States can do more. We believe that capacity-building is the key. Reporting is one thing, particularly by other governments. Being able to empower civil society to bring its government to task regarding what it thinks are abuses or lack of respect for human rights is much more important. We think the Organization of American States should be providing more and more technical assistance. We ourselves are providing moneys in that regard.

The other aspect is that when conditions reach a certain critical point, the OAS needs to become activated. It has a permanent council, and at council meetings that country's representatives, our ambassadors, can make statements. We have done so on several occasions, not only on Venezuela but on others.

Again, we think there should be an opportunity for not only countries but also other branches to bring those points of view. Thus far, it is only when a country's executive brings a critical threat to democracy to the OAS that it is heard. We believe that in this case it should be open to the judiciary as well as to the legislator.

A good example would be in the case of Venezuela, where I think we see a trend line of disrespect for the rights of the judiciary to have a capacity to be completely independent. I would like to see the OAS be open to, as I said, having other branches of the government come forward and be able to lay their concerns in advance of a major rupture, such as we saw take place in Honduras just about a year ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

We're out of time.

However, if I have unanimous consent, I would like to ask one question myself. Is that agreeable to colleagues?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay.

Melissa, our analyst, had prepared a number of questions. One of them hasn't been picked up, and it might be useful to all of us, so I'll just ask it here. It's number four on your list.

The Venezuelan government has recently threatened to withdraw from the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights and the OAS. What implications might doing so have for Canada-Venezuela relations?

[Alexandra Bugailiskis]

I think it would weaken those relations, because there's a lot of joint activity through the Organization of American States as well as the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. Every three or four years, a summit of the Americas is organized to bring leadership together to be able to speak to issues, as we did in Trinidad and Tobago a year ago about the financial crisis and the difficulties of rebuilding our economies. I think anything that would lessen our opportunity to be able to come together at a very senior level would lessen that relationship.

We hope this threat is not going to be fulfilled and that it's only timely criticism by the Venezuelan government in relation to the current report. We would encourage them--we ourselves have in the past been victims of criticism by international organizations. We've opened our doors. We've had them come and take a look. We've tried to meet their criticisms with constructive dialogue and engagement, and that's what we would hope the Venezuelan government would do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you very much, and thank you to everybody for letting me ask that final question.

[Alexandra Bugailiskis]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

We're actually past our deadline; therefore, the meeting is adjourned.