Evidence of meeting #68 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nevsun.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Felix Horne  Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch
Gary Schellenberger  Perth—Wellington, CPC

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Good afternoon. I welcome everyone to meeting No. 68 of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, on Thursday February the 14th, which is also Valentine's Day.

We are televised today, so don't do anything you wouldn't want your mother to see. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our study into the human rights situation in Eritrea, a study that has revealed some fascinating testimony so far.

Felix Horne, who is a researcher on the Horn of Africa for Human Rights Watch, is our witness today, and this promises to be a very interesting meeting indeed.

Mr. Horne, please feel free to begin. As you know, we'd like you to keep your testimony around 10 minutes. It's not a firm deadline, but that allows us to allow maximum time for interaction with the members of the committee, given the constraints that we face on our time.

1:10 p.m.

Felix Horne Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Thank you. As this committee is aware, Eritrea is one of the world's most repressive countries. Its government has pursued a path of crushing political repression at home and a belligerent foreign policy. There is no civil society. There is no independent media. No elections have been held since independence in 1993. And torture is widespread.

Eritrea's impoverished economy has also suffered greatly because of the government's political and diplomatic isolation, but in recent years the government has actively courted international investors attracted by the country's large and untapped mineral resources.

The Bisha project, which is majority-owned and operated by Canadian firm Nevsun Resources, is Eritrea's first and so far only operational mine. It began gold production in 2011 and produced some $614 million worth of ore. To put that in perspective, the entire GDP of Eritrea is $2.6 billion, so it is a significant amount, a significant input into the Eritrean economy. Other companies from Australia, China, and Canada are poised to develop further mines.

Eritrea is also well known for its national service program, which uses forced labour indefinitely. Through this program, the Eritrean government keeps an enormous number of Eritreans under perpetual government control as conscripts. Originally conceived as an 18-month program, the national service scheme now requires all able-bodied men and most women to serve indefinitely, often for years with no end in sight, under harsh and abusive conditions. Those who try to flee risk imprisonment, torture, and even reprisals directed against their families.

Eritrea's national service program is not a secret. There is a lot of documentation about the types of violations and types of abuses that take place under that program. In 2009, Human Rights Watch produced Service for Life, which outlined some of those violations, including the use of forced labour.

Some national service conscripts are assigned to state-owned construction companies that exercise a complete monopoly in the field. International mining firms operating in Eritrea face intense government pressure to engage these contractors to develop some of their project infrastructure. If they do so, they run a pronounced risk of at least indirect involvement in the use and harsh mistreatment of forced labourers. This means international mining companies, including Nevsun Resources, could see their projects develop on the backs of forced labour.

Now, when Nevsun Resources began building its Bisha mine in 2008, it failed to conduct human rights due diligence activity and it did not have adequate procedures in place to ensure that forced labour was not being used to develop the project. At the government's insistence, the Bisha project engaged Segen Construction Company, which is a state-run PFDJ contractor. And there's evidence that Segen regularly exploits national service conscripts in its activities.

Human Rights Watch interviewed some Eritreans who worked at Nevsun's Bisha mine project in various capacities, including two who said they were conscripts forced by Segen to carry out construction work at the mine site during its initial development. There was also clear evidence that many of Segen's workers at Bisha during that period faced terrible conditions, from inadequate food supplies to unsafe housing. The workers we interviewed said that national service conscripts lived in fear and had been ordered not to complain about their situation. One former conscript told Human Rights Watch that he was captured and imprisoned after leaving the mine site without permission in order to attend a friend's funeral. Since the publication of the report, numerous other individuals have come forward and their testimonies and stories are very consistent with the types of allegations that we outlined in the report.

Human Rights Watch engaged in extensive dialogue with Nevsun about these allegations to try to understand what steps the company has taken to address them. Since our engagement with Nevsun, to their credit, they have tightened their policies, largely through an improved screening procedure that is meant to vet all workers at the mine to ensure that they're there voluntarily.

Nevsun, as you know, says that these policies are now adequate to the task of keeping the project free of forced labour, but—and this is critical—the company does not know for certain whether conscript labourers are being used at Bisha or not. When Nevsun sought to interview Segen workers in an effort to ensure the company was not complicit in the abuses, they were refused by Segen. When they sought to visit the camps to investigate the living conditions of Segen workers, again they were refused.

So its efforts to investigate these allegations have been obstructed by Segen itself and Nevsun appears to feel it has no power to confront its own state-run contractor about these allegations of abuse. Instead, its response to Segen's stonewalling has been one of quiet acceptance.

But Nevsun cannot simply pass on the responsibility for human rights problems at its mine site to the contractor it is paying to work there. Any human rights abuses by Segen would implicate Nevsun and Nevsun has the responsibility to investigate them and to ensure that they stop.

For us, the lessons here are clear. Mining firms must either find ways to ensure that their Eritrea operations do not involve them in the use and maltreatment of forced labour or they should not invest there at all. They cannot afford to develop human rights safeguards on the fly when project development is already under way. They must develop them before they begin mine development. If their projects in Eritrea do become complicit in the use of forced labour, they should be held accountable by their own governments and by their shareholders.

We believe that Nevsun should immediately work to address the shortcomings of its engagement in Eritrea and refuse to continue operating under the status quo. The company should insist on full cooperation from its partners in investigating the allegations of human rights abuses connected to the mining project. Nevsun's experience should serve as a clear reminder to other mining and exploration firms, including the other Canadian firm, that they are now on notice and that they face the risk of being complicit in human rights abuses should they choose to invest in Eritrea's mining sector.

Unfortunately, there is no indication that other mining firms developing projects in Eritrea are taking these risks seriously enough. Three firms, including Canada's Sunridge Gold, are actively moving ahead with plans to develop new mines in Eritrea, while other firms are exploring numerous other potential projects. The Canadian firm Sunridge failed to reply to repeated efforts to contact it by phone and by writing.

In conclusion, our report serves as a strong example of why governments, like those in Canada, need to develop mechanisms that pay close attention to the human rights records of their companies when they operate abroad.

We call on the Government of Canada to do three things: first, to implement legal frameworks that allow government institutions to monitor the human rights performance of Canadian companies when they operate abroad in areas that carry serious human rights risks, such as Eritrea; second, to take steps to regulate the human rights conduct of domestic companies operating abroad in these complex environments, such as requiring companies to carry out some form of human rights due diligence; third, to communicate an expectation to the Government of Eritrea, that companies investing in their mining sector should not be using forced labour or be involved in any other human rights abuses.

Thank you.

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Thank you.

Mr. Horne, before we go to our questioners, I just wanted to ask you this. You gave us some numbers and I just missed out on the beginning. The total GDP of Eritrea you said was $2.6 billion. What did you say the Bisha Mines' revenues were?

1:15 p.m.

Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Felix Horne

In 2011, $614 million worth of ore is cited for Bisha.

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

So it's more or less a quarter of the total GDP of the entire country.

1:15 p.m.

Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Felix Horne

Correct. It's a significant amount.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

That would be a fairly accurate number I assume, because Nevsun has to report back to its shareholders and therefore has a responsibility at this end, if not in Eritrea, to be precise about its numbers.

1:20 p.m.

Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Felix Horne

My understanding is that this number is based on Nevsun's communications.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

All right. Thank you very much.

It is 20 past, according to my watch. We have lost our inaccurate clock over there, you may notice. This should give us time to have a six-minute question and answer period per questioner, but if you ask a long question I may have to interrupt our witness in order to allow others to also pose questions, so please be concise. That's a message not to our witness but to our MPs.

We begin with Mr. Sweet.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Thank you for that message, Mr. Chair. I will be as concise as I possibly can.

Thank you very much for your presence here, Mr. Horne.

I wanted to ask you for your comment on a statement that was made by Mr. Davis, president and chief executive officer of Nevsun Resources who was here before us. He said, “Nevsun has only a limited ability to influence and control events in Eritrea, but neither are we without influence so long as we exercise it judiciously. We are practising the tried and true Canadian approach of quiet diplomacy.”

You had mentioned that you wanted to give Nevsun some credit in that regard. Do you feel that it's doing a good job in this regard, as he stated?

1:20 p.m.

Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Felix Horne

It's difficult. Nevsun should have employed these sorts of procedures and had these sorts of discussions before it began operations. Once the mine is operational, it's very difficult to put these sorts of procedures in place. Given that it didn't do that, it has taken steps in the right direction in terms of putting in some processes. But the fact that they are not allowed to visit the Segen camp and interview Segen workers, the subcontractor that it is paying, is a huge problem. It still cannot determine whether or not it is using forced labour.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

I asked Mr. Davis a question regarding the validity of some things that were on the Internet, because we know what the Internet is like. He said:

You may recall from my preliminary statement that we made investigations, starting in 2010, when we were actively involved in the development, about...and not reacting to those assertions at all. Rather, they initiated initially by our contractor on site due to productivity issues.

He went on to to say that they made an investigation, however, it was challenging, and that they did provide better facilities. He said they supplied additional food to ensure people were well fed, and they complained to the subcontractor. He said that to some degree that remedied the situation.

He's claiming that he actually did have access and was able to investigate to some degree, but you're saying they don't have any ability at all.

1:20 p.m.

Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Felix Horne

Our understanding, based on recent communications that we have had with Nevsun, is that they were not able to visit the site or interview Segen employees.

The other thing, as we talked about with the contribution to GDP, is that Nevsun is in a very powerful position. It's not that they need to accept what the Government of Eritrea is asking them to do without any sort of ability to negotiate. Certainly the least they should be asking is to be able to monitor, effectively, the conditions in the camp of their subcontractor, whom they are paying.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

I want to give you another quote from Mr. Davis:

Back in 2008, when we really started this development project, we recognized that there was a potential national service issue with respect to the subcontractor, when we started employment with the subcontractor, engagement with the subcontractor. We hired an independent consultant that was recommended by World Bank institutions, and they developed a process—quite a comprehensive process. Over the past number of years, naturally, that process has even further developed. I mentioned some of it in my earlier statement.

He's speaking about the fact that he's able to actually deal with that subcontractor now. However, his remarks were that he doesn't have as robust an influence with that subcontractor as he does with his own people.

You do see a difference with the people directly hired by Nevsun, whom Mr. Davis said were there on their own accord and he had developed a process for interviewing them, and the subcontractor.

1:20 p.m.

Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Felix Horne

We have not heard any allegations that individuals who were employed directly by Nevsun had this problem. It's primarily the subcontractor.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Were you aware of this person who is acting as a consultant from the World Bank to remedy the situation with the subcontractor for Nevsun?

1:20 p.m.

Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Felix Horne

I heard the statement that he gave before this committee, but beyond that, no.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

So you don't have any evidence of anything on the ground?

1:25 p.m.

Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Felix Horne

With the initial discussions we had with Nevsun, it was quite apparent to us that they were not aware of the risk before they began the mine site development.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

What date was your initial conversation, Mr. Horne?

1:25 p.m.

Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Felix Horne

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe it would have been early 2012.

Nevsun, as mentioned, was very forthcoming with us, and it was a very open dialogue, which was appreciated. It was clear that there wasn't a really good understanding of what some of the risks from the national service program were for their company.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Mr. Chair, there's a very significant divergence here.

I want to point for the record that Mr. Davis clearly said that back in 2008 they began this investigation specifically regarding the subcontractor. That's what I have in the transcript before me. Mr. Horne is saying clearly that as far as their meetings, Nevsun wasn't aware of the situation in 2012. It concerns me that there's that four-year disparity there.

Thank you.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Thank you very much, Mr. Sweet.

Mr. Marston please.

1:25 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Horne. We're pleased to have you here. Anybody going to that part of the world, with the kind of government.... It's hard to even use the word “government” in relation to a system like they have.

Mr. Davis was before us and he said that there was no use of slave labour as such. Listening to your testimony, it sounds to me like they were very naive when they went in there. I'm very reluctant to point fingers at any Canadian company and say they would deliberately engage slave labour or support it in any form. I would like to think they wouldn't, but on the other hand it sounds like they were really naive.

Another statement we had is that their CSR page indicates the company “has embarked on a number of programs with the community and the local, regional, and central government” to ensure the benefits of their project are actually widespread and that the community is fully and properly engaged with the development and operations.

That's a very nice statement, and I hope it's true. What's your reaction to that statement?

1:25 p.m.

Researcher, Horn of Africa, Human Rights Watch

Felix Horne

There's certainly not a lot of evidence that this statement has been sort of followed through on, or implemented. It seems that Nevsun took a lot of what they heard from the Government of Eritrea at face value and didn't do their own investigations and didn't perform proper due diligence to see what some of the risks were.