Evidence of meeting #18 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was told.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Ms. Cojean, I'd like to begin by thanking you for testifying before the committee today. I'm trying to think of an appropriate word to describe the work you have done to uncover the truth about sexual violence, and I can't think of one, actually. Someone might suggest what you have done is inspirational.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Some would say it's just out of sheer bravery. In any case, I'm sure we all thank you for the work you've done.
I've been wondering. The women who are victims, as you've described, I'm assuming, are part of the, I think you used the words rebel movement or the anti-government movement. I'm assuming that's what it is. How are they identified to be the women who would be taken and tortured in these ways? Are there special groups, like activists, the academia, teachers, very conservative...? Is that how they're targeted, by the activities they're involved in or their occupations?
1:55 p.m.
Journalist, Le Monde, As an Individual
Could you please repeat your question?
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I was wondering how these women who are taken for torture chosen. Is it because of what they do in their work, because of who they are, or because they're conservative in their religion? Are they members of families where maybe men are fighting against the government? Is it those groups, in particular, that are chosen?
2 p.m.
Journalist, Le Monde, As an Individual
That is a very good question. All the women who may be identified as lawyers, academics, intellectuals or journalists and who have taken a position against the regime of Bashar al-Assad are of course systematically the first ones targeted.
Then those whose husbands, fathers or brothers are suspected of being combatants or rebels are obviously in the greatest danger. The women are obviously always taken in order to get to those fathers, brothers or husbands.
Raids are conducted on people's homes. Several women described raids on houses in which the police suddenly arrive and demand where the brother is. The women are often unable to say and the police systematically take the daughter and drag her outside. People know very well that she will be raped simply to punish the brother or to make him turn himself in or show himself. That has often happened and it is a kind of blackmail.
To get to the father and brother, they always take the wife or daughter and she pays for them. They rape her to humiliate the father or brother so that he is responsible for the most terrible crime, the rape of his daughter or sister. In any case, you are right about the attacks: they are one way of getting to the rebels.
Many women are also taken at random. Three raped women whom I interviewed said they had been taken entirely at random. In the case of one of them, it was when she was leaving the university. She was arrested with a friend. Another was walking in the street with her daughter. I believe her daughter was a chemistry student. They were arrested and both were taken away. They were stripped and their cell phones were removed. Unfortunately, the daughter's cell phone contained a photo of what they call a martyr. It showed a young male rebel who had been assassinated and was therefore considered a martyr. Photographs of martyrs are venerated. The girl had the photograph of this martyr on her cell phone with a verse from the Koran that, I believe, read, "I hope he goes to paradise," or "God, take him into your paradise," or something like that. Consequently, the situation was even harder for this girl who had been randomly selected. Once again, her family was not particularly interested in the revolution. She was even more violently beaten, raped and so on.
Another woman told me that she was from Daraa. Daraa is the city where all the initial demonstrations took place and is therefore considered a rebel city. That woman had left Daraa a long time ago. She had eight children and lived in Damascus with her husband and family. From one day to the next, her children were prohibited from going to school. She was stunned and went to the school one morning. This woman had never gone to school herself and did not know how to read or write and therefore went to the school to ask why officials were depriving her children of education, explaining that her children had had nothing to do with what had happened in Daraa and that they lived in Damascus. She had barely finished speaking when the door was closed behind her and she was beaten. The principal and other teachers called the secret service people who arrived shortly thereafter. They blindfolded the woman, kidnapped her and took to a secret service centre where she was held for weeks. I think she was there for six months.
She was raped and suffered all kinds of torture. She was transported to prisons several times and to other secret service detention facilities. She changed detention centres four or five times. Her family heard absolutely no word from her for six months and she received no news of her children. A ridiculous sham trial was subsequently held, a kind of farce, and she was released. This woman had nothing to do with the revolution. She had simply complained when her children were turned away from school.
It would be hard to say that these cases systematically involve members of revolutionary families. That is not necessarily the case. Yes, they mainly involve members of revolutionary families, but not always. Authorities actually attack all families. They want to terrorize the population as a whole. Sunnis are generally targeted. The executioners, whether they are soldiers or militiamen, are always saying something about the Sunnis. They often call out to them and say they are going to humiliate and crush them. Most of the abuses and torture are committed against Sunnis, who form the majority of the population.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you.
We'll go to our last questioner.
Mr. Benskin, you have the floor.
2:05 p.m.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Ms. Cojean, thank your for your testimony. Even though the facts are appalling, it is important that you tell us about them.
For those of us who study history or are engaged in history, we've seen the evolution of war. We've seen how war was considered almost a gentlemanly thing, where two groups of people stood a number of feet away from each other, shot at each other, and the side with the most number of people left standing was the winner. We've seen that devolve into the first bombings of civilian targets.
I think if there's anything we can take away from your testimony today, it's that we need to seriously rethink rape in the context of crisis. I was struck by your comparison in regard to the UN's and international community's worries about chemical warfare while this is going on. I don't think it would be a stretch of the imagination to say that this is a new form of psychological warfare. This is something that has been planned and thought out to terrorize, as you've mentioned, to undermine, to destroy the fabric of a community and society.
In that way, I think we need to step away from the social aspects of this crime, the religious or the social understanding or concept of this, and really begin to look at it as something akin to going into a community with a machete and hacking people to death, but doing this psychologically. Would that be a fair assessment of what you've been trying to share with us?
2:05 p.m.
Journalist, Le Monde, As an Individual
Yes, absolutely. This is one way of completely terrorizing the population or of deterring it from rebelling. It permanently scars the families. Le Monde entitled its article, "Weapon of Mass Destruction". However, it is also a ticking time bomb because children who have seen their mothers being raped, as has been the case in many instances, or brothers who have seen their sisters in that position will obviously never be the same. They have become completely traumatized people. What is striking is that the psychologists I spoke to told me about the damage, the lasting and probably permanent trauma of most of the people they have seen. A very small minority have access to care since no one in the Zaatari camp in Jordan, for example, will dare confide in a doctor, or else secrecy has to be guaranteed.
I see what this has done in Libya, where women today are still defeated and trapped in their secret. They cannot speak out, or else their families have completely disintegrated. We see this in the DRC, the Democratic Republic of Congo, where the social fabric there too has been undermined and completely destroyed.
So you are right, the social aspect is very important. The damage may affect generations. Once again, it is very difficult to intervene since women who have been raped cannot say so.
Now I believe there are small associations, people in France and other countries, that have done some work on these issues in light of what happened in Yugoslavia. Some legal experts have also specialized in the area and have no doubt acquired expertise in the matter, but few people understand how terrible this weapon is as a result of the secrecy it imposes and the silence that is so heavy.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
Thank you, Mr. Benskin.
Thanks as well to our witness, Ms. Cojean.
We're very grateful to you.
We appreciate the testimony you have given us today. Thank you.
2:10 p.m.
Journalist, Le Monde, As an Individual
Thank you very much. It was an honour to testify before you today and I feel it is my duty to describe what is happening. My work is to break the silence. There is nothing I can do but break the silence. I have no solution or advice to offer, but I at least want people to know what is going on in Syria right now. I would like politicians to pay special attention to the situation of women and constantly to demand to know more about it because women never step forward, at least in these societies. The women in these societies are imprisoned by their secret. I always automatically wonder what happens to them in times of war or revolution. Their fate, more often than not, is a tragic one.
Thank you for listening to me. This is a great honour for me.
2:10 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Mr. Chair, I would like to move the motion on Egypt so that we can get the witnesses lined up.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Scott Reid
If you haven't got agreement about.... If you don't mind, we'll have to let that wait.
We're adjourned.