Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 4th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Ms. Norton, I interrupted you.

[Leslie Norton]

Thank you very much.

I just wanted to add that on the question of returns following the genocide, the focus of the humanitarian and development programs in Rwanda by the Government of Canada was really on repatriation and reconstruction back in Rwanda and on creating the conditions for return. While I can't give you the numbers of women versus men versus children who returned, there were substantial numbers, and the majority of our focus was on making sure those conditions were created so people would return. Also, the focus of our assistance was really on shelter, water, and sanitation, as well as on making sure there were schools, along with relief supplies.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Are some of these programs there meant to help the children of these raped women? If they've been outcast, right now they're getting to be of quite an age. Were they accepted back into some of these communities, or have they been totally shunned?

[Leslie Norton]

My recollection is that some of the NGO partners who were implementing these programs and projects for us focused on female-headed households as well as child-headed households. Certainly at the time, the international community recognized that and focused on trying to ensure that people who were in such a situation were able to return to their communities.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Thank you, Mr. Schellenberger.

Mr. Benskin, you're up.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Genocide, the attempt to eliminate a people, is a very complex and layered process, and the reaction to that can be as complex and layered as the act itself. The immediate reaction is to help those who have been afflicted, the women and the families who endured these atrocities, but from some of the reading I've come across, the ones who have fallen through the cracks are the 20-odd thousand children who were born of these rapes. In many cases, governments—and I can't speak for the Canadian government—put their efforts into helping the women who were raped and their communities. But the children who were born of these acts were not considered victims of genocide. Thus many of the programs that were available did not include them, and they could not access these programs.

These children are now 19 or 20 years old. They will become the parents of the future communities in Rwanda. My interest is in what we can learn from them, from what they experienced, and also in cases of mothers who could not look at their children because of the reminder of what they had gone through and what they were. Hutus would not accept them because they were born of Tutsi mothers, and Tutsis would not accept them because they were children born of “genocidists”, to coin a phrase.

What, if anything, have we done and what can we do to better prepare ourselves for our intervention in future cases? This is still happening in the DRC. Using rape as a weapon of conflict is a very targeted thing. What can we glean from this horrible experience to better prepare ourselves to help those who will need our help in the future?

[Kenneth Neufeld]

The work that's been done through the United Nations family of organizations, as my colleague Ms. Norton pointed out, has been deeply influenced by the experience and has adopted new norms and procedures and commitments to working in contexts such as this. Part of that, I would argue, will guide future interventions.

The other important element of our intervention in the area has been through non-governmental organizations and community organizations, such as the 11 women's associations that I mentioned earlier. Because they are at the community level and they are formed of either people who are directly affected, or neighbours and family members of those who are deeply affected, they have a very detailed understanding of what the consequences are and what actions are required. Those organizations have that knowledge and are implementing programs in Rwanda and in the region—DRC, Burundi, and Uganda—using the experience of their work in Rwanda.

That, I think, is the answer to your question, sir.

[Leslie Norton]

Could I add a few things?

I was quite taken with your question about what we can learn and how we can prepare for the future. In fact, the future is here today.

Currently, through our humanitarian assistance programming, we support a range of efforts around the world that work to prevent sexual violence in humanitarian crises and to assist survivors.

For example, in 2014 we provided $10 million to experienced humanitarian organizations so that they could expand their capacity to prevent and reduce sexual violence, and to strengthen the overall international humanitarian system and its ability to protect women and girls from violence in emergency contexts.

A case in point is in Iraq. We are supporting both the UNHCR and the ICRC in their efforts to prevent and respond to sexual violence. These organizations are providing medical treatment as well as psychosocial counselling and legal assistance to survivors.

You have probably also heard that in October 2014, in addition to the humanitarian assistance for Iraqis affected by the crisis in Iraq, we announced a $10 million contribution to address sexual and gender-based violence in ISIL-affected areas.

Other examples are Somalia, South Sudan, DRC, Mali, and Central African Republic. We are also supporting the International Committee of the Red Cross to work with national governments to increase the prosecution of violations through strengthened national laws and policies, and to strengthen emergency preparedness and responses to sexual violence in conflict.

The limelight is on issues of sexual and gender-based violence in humanitarian crises today as it has never been before. I do believe that the system has learned a lot from the case in Rwanda, and we continue to learn with each new crisis.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Do I have time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Your time is up, Mr. Benskin, but you can do one more, since you are our last questioner.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I want to ask a quick question. Do survivors include the children born of sexual violence? I think that was the biggest issue. From a number of people I've spoken to, and from things that I've read, that was something it was felt was not there enough and did not come to mind. Are the children considered survivors as well, or is it just the women who have endured these horrible acts?

[Leslie Norton]

Maybe I can kick off with an answer. In the immediate aftermath of any humanitarian crisis, there is a robust vulnerability assessment done by our partners. If these children and women were considered vulnerable, then they would absolutely have had access to humanitarian assistance, absolutely.

If you are asking about the particular case of Rwanda, I was actually the desk officer between 1998 and 2001 on the humanitarian desk for the Great Lakes, and there was no discrimination whatsoever between children who were born as a result of rape, versus children who were orphans for other reasons, versus female-headed households. The lens the humanitarian community puts on when they're approaching these situations is indeed vulnerability. That's what they look at, because they are upholding the humanitarian principles of neutrality, impartiality, and independence. If there's need, they will respond based on the need.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

With the permission of the subcommittee, I have a number of factual questions I'd like to raise.

I recognize that you may not be the individuals who are able to answer these questions for us, but these are the kinds of quantitative questions that would be helpful to us to have answers for, and I'm hopeful that you can shed some light on them.

Our analysts, who always prepare some background material for us in anticipation of these meetings, inform us that approximately two-thirds of the women who were raped during the genocide were infected with HIV at that time. Of course, surviving 20 years with HIV is difficult in any circumstances, and these would not have been ideal circumstances. Do you know how many of these women have since passed away as a result either of this infection or just of the attrition that occurs over a 20-year period?

[Kenneth Neufeld]

No, I wouldn't have those figures.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Okay.

Second, if two-thirds of the women who were raped developed HIV and AIDS, may I assume that a substantial proportion of the 20,000 children are now orphaned as a result of that, in that their only parent who would have had any contact with them would since have passed on? Do you have any information as to the numbers in regard to those 20,000 children who were effectively orphaned?

[Kenneth Neufeld]

I wouldn't have those figures with me, no.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

For my third question, which is related to this, we know there has been a widespread social rejection of the children. Do we have any information, quantitatively again, as to what percentage of them were effectively abandoned, orphaned, or had to be raised outside of a normal family context, that is, to the degree that one was able to establish a normal family context under any circumstances? In an attempt to categorize where they are, do we have any idea of that information?

[Kenneth Neufeld]

I wouldn't have that information here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

All right. That's very helpful. We'll keep looking around. I wanted to find out. It would be a shame to not get that if you did have it at your disposal.

We very much appreciate both of you coming in and taking the time to be with us today. Your information has been very helpful. We are very grateful indeed that you've come here.

[Kenneth Neufeld]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Scott Reid]

Is there anything else, colleagues?

The meeting is adjourned.