Evidence of meeting #40 for International Trade in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Wynne Hartviksen  Communications and Political Action Director, National Office, UNITE HERE Canada
Radika Quansoon  Garment worker and member, Ontario Council, UNITE HERE Canada

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Good morning, everyone. We're starting the formal portion of our committee now, although most of us have just taken part in a two-hour meeting in conjunction with FIPA, very informative and very worthwhile.

We are here today to continue with discussion on Peter Julian's motion on the clothing and textile industry.

We have as witnesses from UNITE HERE Canada: Wynne Hartviksen, communications and political action director, national office; and Radika Quansoon, garment worker and member of the Ontario council.

Thank you very much for being here. If you could make your presentation, we'll get directly to questions after that. Go ahead, please.

10:05 a.m.

Wynne Hartviksen Communications and Political Action Director, National Office, UNITE HERE Canada

That would be great.

Hi, everybody. My name is Wynne Hartviksen and I am the communications and political action director for UNITE HERE Canada. Our union represents 50,000 workers across Canada and a wide range of industries. Our members work in hotels and restaurants and social service agencies and in autoparts plants. For the past century, we have represented Canadian garment workers. It's those workers in that industry we want to talk to you about today.

At the beginning of 2002, tariffs began to be lifted on many categories of apparel and textile products from China.

On January 1, 2005, all WTO-sanctioned quotas on apparel imports from China were also removed. Since that time, there has been a severe market disruption in the Canadian apparel industry, with imports from China rising in some product categories by a shocking 200%. Following the elimination of the decades-old apparel-quota system, many countries, most notably the United States and the European Union, moved to impose time-limited restrictions on the growth of specific apparel imports into their domestic markets, as allowed for under article 242 of China's WTO accession agreement. These restrictions, which are known as safeguards, allow countries to cap the growth of imports from China in specific apparel categories to 7.5% each year, from the past year until the end of the calendar year 2008.

This combination of events--the lifting of the quotas in 2005, and the fact that the U.S. and the EU both moved to implement safeguards--has left the Canadian domestic apparel market even more vulnerable to surging imports from China, the global leader in apparel production. As the EU and the U.S. safeguard measures reduced the flow of Chinese exports to the world's two largest markets, ours has been accessed more readily to fill the void.

The effects on jobs and the industry has been dramatic. As Bob Kirke, executive director of the Canadian Apparel Federation, said in Business Edge newsmagazine on November 24 of this year, the elimination of tariffs and quotas on imported clothing “was the perfect storm” for our industry.

While a number of apparel companies have been able to move from manufacturing to importing to survive, the people who work in this industry--the sewing machine operators, the cutters, and the finishers we represent--have not been so lucky. Since January 2002, more jobs have been lost--approximately 50,000--than remain today. As of January 2006, there were just over 48,000 jobs left in the apparel industry, according to Statistics Canada. The impact has been felt particularly in Quebec, which I understand you'll be speaking of more next week.

Though nothing has prohibited our country from using the same WTO-sanctioned safeguard measures that the EU and the U.S. used, the previous Canadian government chose not to act to negotiate safeguards. So in July 2005, our union, UNITE HERE, joined three garment workers, including Radika Quansoon, who is here with us today, and launched a complaint to the Canadian International Trade Tribunal, asking for an inquiry into the market disruption and the recommendation for the imposition of safeguards in eight specific categories. The CITT took almost 15 months to decide that Radika, though clearly meeting the dictionary definition of a producer, did not qualify to launch a complaint to the tribunal as a producer.

Unfortunately, during that time, the Canadian government did not act to negotiate safeguards, deferring to the CITT. In that time, more factories have closed, more jobs were lost, and more families and communities have been torn apart. We chose to submit our CITT complaint as workers in the industry, because we believe workers should have a say in the trade relations and regulations that so clearly impact their livelihood. Additionally, we were supported by a number of Canadian manufacturers and well-known producers.

It has been said only 1% of the industry wanted the Canadian government to implement safeguards. We disagree with that statement based on the pure numbers. We need to take a different look at this issue and ask ourselves how many workers and jobs are represented by the manufacturers who we know support the negotiation of safeguards.

The apparel industry is complex. Many of the thousands of establishments in this sector are very small. It's estimated that at least a quarter of them employ fewer than five people.

Many of the manufacturers in this industry are also importers, or they are producers in other countries, including China, who then import products back into Canada. Attempting to ascertain the support of this industry for one policy or another is difficult just because of the sheer size and the fragmentation of the operations.

But many companies are also understandably torn between their desire to protect their Canadian workers' jobs and operations and their need to compete in the Canadian marketplace, which is now free of any protection and in fact encourages importing from other countries over maintaining jobs at home.

We know, though, even with these factors, that many larger leading manufacturers supported our complaint to the CITT, signing postcards, sending letters, and in some cases also sending letters to the former Prime Minister asking the Canadian government to negotiate safeguards.

I have with me today letters and postcards from about 30 apparel manufacturers who as of January of this year, we estimate, represent probably just under 10% of the apparel workforce in Canada.

More powerful, though, than just the numbers are the words of Canadian manufacturers. Along with the aforementioned letters to the former Prime Minister, I've also brought with me today—and I understand this is available for circulation—a letter from Kash Sood, who is the president and CEO of the Ranka Group.

I should make it clear, we don't actually represent the workers who produce for the Ranka Group. Kash Sood contacted us after hearing about our complaint to the CITT, wanting to sign on and support the campaign.

In his letter of December 5 of this year to the members of this committee, Mr. Sood clearly states his support for safeguards. I quote:

Although a portion of our business is imports, we have prided ourselves on the fact that Ranka Enterprise Inc. is and continues to be a Canadian Manufacturer, which provides jobs to Canadians. We make a variety of apparel products, from women's clothing to hats and accessories and sell to well known retail stores, across North America, like the Bay, Zellers, Sears, Wal-Mart, Disney, Marshal Field and JC Penny.

Five years ago, our company employed in excess of 600 people; today the number is about 160 people. If the current surging imports from China continue, unchecked, the number of people we can employ will likely be further reduced.

Short notice of the Committee's intent makes it impossible for me to testify in person. But we want you and the other members of the Committee to know that, as a Canadian Apparel Manufacturer, we fully support the Canadian government implementing safeguard measures with China.

He finishes his letter with:

We urge the Government of Canada to take steps to address the competitive disadvantage Canadian clothing manufacturers face and we ask your committee to encourage the government to negotiate a safeguard agreement with China without delay.

Even those companies that have made the move to producing outside the country acknowledge the devastating effect of the regulatory changes on the Canadian market. From the same Business Edge news magazine of November of this year about the elimination of tariffs and quotas, I quote: It “had a disastrous effect on Canadian jobs and manufacturing,” says Gary Steiman, president and chief operating officer of Winnipeg's Gemini Fashion of Canada Ltd., one of hundreds of Canadian companies that closed their manufacturing plants in Canada.

Currently, Gemini Fashion, which operates out of Winnipeg and used to employ 450 workers just a few years ago, now employs only 150 people and is operating as an import-only business.

With all these facts, we've been left to wonder why. Why is the new Canadian government not acting to stand up for Canadian jobs? Why has the government not moved to utilize the same WTO-sanctioned safeguard measures as the U.S., the EU, Brazil, Turkey, and--just in September of this year--South Africa have all used to protect their domestic industry and their local jobs? Why is one of the bedrock manufacturing industries in this country not allowed the same chances as its counterparts in most of the developed world?

We're not asking for a radical set of protection methods. While a discussion of things like labour and human rights in China is certainly valid and important, it's not the foundation of our argument. Currently, as Kash Sood said in his letter, Canadian manufacturers face a competitive disadvantage. Workers in this industry like Radika are the ones paying the price for this competitive disadvantage and simply want their government to utilize the same measures—safeguards—as many of our major trading partners have already used.

We would like to thank the committee for giving us this opportunity to speak to it today.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We'll go directly to questions, starting with the official opposition. Mr. Eyking.

10:15 a.m.

Communications and Political Action Director, National Office, UNITE HERE Canada

Wynne Hartviksen

Oh, Radika is also going to speak. I'm sorry.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Oh, did you have a presentation as well?

10:15 a.m.

Radika Quansoon Garment worker and member, Ontario Council, UNITE HERE Canada

Yes.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Is it quite short?

10:15 a.m.

Garment worker and member, Ontario Council, UNITE HERE Canada

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

We really need it to be as short as possible. It's going to be tough to get even one round of questioning in.

10:15 a.m.

Garment worker and member, Ontario Council, UNITE HERE Canada

Radika Quansoon

My name is Radika Quansoon, and I live in Hamilton, Ontario. I've worked for Coppley Apparel Group for about 22 years. We manufacture men's clothing. There are about 400 people who work for Coppley, and we make high-end suits, some of which some of you guys may be wearing here. As the best-known brand in North America, we are the people who make the suits for Don Cherry.

10:20 a.m.

Communications and Political Action Director, National Office, UNITE HERE Canada

Wynne Hartviksen

Don't hold it against them.

10:20 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

10:20 a.m.

An hon. member

Do you make those collars too?

10:20 a.m.

Garment worker and member, Ontario Council, UNITE HERE Canada

Radika Quansoon

Everything.

About 90% of the Coppley staff in Hamilton are women and immigrants. Over 75% of the women there can't even read or speak English.

We have jobs that allow us to support our families. We are skilled workers who take pride in our high-end, quality products. The problem is that our industry is under serious pressure. We wonder if our jobs will be there five years from now. For those of us who have done this type of work for most of our adult lives, retraining does not make any sense to us, because we are older people. Many of us cannot even speak English or French as a second language.

We work at good-quality, union-wage manufacturing jobs to support our families. What I'm trying to say is that we just need to save our jobs. Most of the time we work eight hours, six hours, four hours. We can't afford to live on half of our pay. We can't even afford to have a car. We can't pay for insurance or make payments on a car because we're not making enough money. Levi's closed down in Hamilton, and most of the people there came to our company, but we could only take so many. They were making $15 an hour or $14 an hour, but they had to start at $8 an hour and up.

It's very difficult for us to even buy a house, because we don't know if we're going to work six months at eight hours or six hours, or whatever. Most of us use public transportation.

I don't understand how Americans can have safeguards. So can Europe and South Africa. Why can't Canada have them? We are trying to protect our jobs and have jobs for our families when they grow up. Why is it so difficult to do that? Most of us came to Canada to better our lives, but if we don't have work, we cannot do that. We're willing to work. We don't want to go on welfare or unemployment. If our company closes down five years from now, I don't know what most of us will do. So please, I hope someone listens and will do something to save our jobs.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you very much, Ms. Quansoon. We appreciate your presentation.

10:20 a.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

We'll now go to the questioning.

Mr. Eyking, for seven minutes.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks for the great presentations that you came with today. I have a couple of questions for you people.

As you're well aware, it's not just China that's giving you the problems; it's everybody, from Costa Rica to Mexico to Indonesia. It's a major problem, and most developing countries in the world are having this problem right now.

Over the last few years—and I'm sure this is the case in Quebec, because Quebec seems to be hit the hardest—the Quebec government and the federal government, through, I think, the Department of Industry, were supposed to help your industry with new products and better technology. Are you aware of that? Did you see anything in your companies?

Another thing that was supposed to help out your industry dealt with the raw products that you use, whether it's cotton or whatever products. Before, there used to be tariffs on those products coming in. The government was also supposed to drop the tariffs on those products so that they would be cheaper products, which would help you with your industry. I'm wondering if you're well aware of any of that.

Thirdly, the European Union went through this a couple of years ago. The European Union put caps on products coming in, especially from China and India. Their industries welcomed those caps, but there was a major problem with transition. When these caps went into place, all these products were coming into Europe, but all of a sudden, nobody was allowed to distribute them. What happened was that consumers were quite upset because they were short on products. If we were going to put caps on some products, we would need some sort of a transition time, so that your industry doesn't all of a sudden look like it's making the consumer short on products.

So that's my third question. If there are caps in place, how much transition time would it take? For instance, if the Levi company is closed and we stop bringing jeans in from wherever, we can't adjust overnight. Is there some sort of plan for that?

Those are my three questions.

10:20 a.m.

Communications and Political Action Director, National Office, UNITE HERE Canada

Wynne Hartviksen

Those are your three questions?

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Either or both of you can go ahead.

10:20 a.m.

Communications and Political Action Director, National Office, UNITE HERE Canada

Wynne Hartviksen

Okay. I'll probably go back in reverse order and forget the first one by the end.

We also heard the stories about the experience with Europe. The method, though, of negotiating safeguards is a method between, obviously, the Government of Canada and, eventually, China. To start safeguard negotiations, the minister of trade, I understand, simply has to send a letter to China indicating they want to negotiate safeguards on some categories, and that would immediately start the ball rolling.

But as happened in Europe, the U.S. and South Africa, they're actually rolled out in a certain set of categories and negotiated. It's not necessarily all categories of apparel and textiles that are rolled out. It is a negotiated process, so I'd hope that we would have learned from the Europeans.

Our safeguard complaint, I should make it clear, was actually in eight very specific categories. It's hard to confess, but there are some categories of clothing that have now become so dominated by imports, in particular from China, that most of the jobs and the manufacturing operations have been lost already. So when we chose the eight categories we submitted to the CITT, we were actually very specifically interested in categories that had real employment in them, things like men's suits, which have been considered expensive products in the past. So men's and boys' suits were, of course, one of the categories, because quality has always been such an important issue in that category. It's the manufacturing that has survived all of the adjustments through many different free trade agreements. So we chose very specific categories that had high levels of employment and also, frankly, in some cases had historical significance in Canada.

You spoke about Montreal. As I said, I understand there are going to be some folks here next week talking to you about the Quebec experience. Montreal is still the third largest apparel manufacturing centre in North America after New York and L.A., and the men's suit industry, in particular, has always had a real place within Montreal's life and culture. So we chose very specific categories that we think would be able to maintained—and jeans, by the by, are not one of them.

We are aware of a number of the different programs. I would probably defer the question on the Quebec adjustment programs to Lina Aristeo from our Quebec council, who I understand is coming next week.

The raw products issue is quite difficult, the lifting of....Textile plants have in fact also gone through many of the same problems as we've seen in apparel. Again, our request for safeguards was just for eight specific categories of apparel goods. And we don't deny this is a complex industry. Manufacturing itself is under a lot of pressure in Canada from the competition from around the world.

But again, we really wanted to look at just this one measure, which actually can only be implemented until the end of 2008, allowing apparel manufacturing in these specific categories to adjust and make those adjustments to this new order, which is what Europe and the U.S. did.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

John Maloney Liberal Welland, ON

What were the eight categories?

10:25 a.m.

Communications and Political Action Director, National Office, UNITE HERE Canada

Wynne Hartviksen

Good question, and it's the reason I have all of this paper sitting beside me today.

The eight categories we had requested were men's and boys' suits; men's and boys' jackets and blazers; men's and boys' overcoats; men's and boys' pants; women's and girls' brassieres; women's and girls' jackets and blazers; women's and girls' pants; and women's and girls' skirts.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

John Maloney Liberal Welland, ON

If import restrictions were phased in, what would be the status of your industry after they are completely phased in?

10:25 a.m.

Communications and Political Action Director, National Office, UNITE HERE Canada

Wynne Hartviksen

When we looked at questions like that, we looked to the experience in the U.S. After the imposition of safeguards—again, in the categories they applied their safeguard negotiations to—they actually found job stabilization in those categories. There was still some job loss; it had just stalled out at what it had been. It had been quite dramatic, in the 10% to 20% range, and it stalled out down at around 5%. In some of the categories, they've actually seen some growth in manufacturing and jobs.

The U.S. is the market we look to for our example of that, and our union was involved in the States with the work on the safeguards down there, as well.