Evidence of meeting #9 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was generic.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul Cardegna  Clerk of the Committee, Standing Committee on International Trade
Barry Fishman  Chair, Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association, and President and Chief Executive Officer, Teva Canada
Kathleen Sullivan  Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
Derek Butler  Executive Director, Association of Seafood Producers
Jim Keon  President, Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association
Russell Williams  President, Canada's Research-Based Pharmaceutical Companies (Rx & D)
Brigitte Nolet  Director, Government Relations and Health Policy, Specialty Division, Hoffmann-La Roche Limited, Canada's Research-Based Pharmaceutical Companies (Rx & D)
Wally Smith  President, Dairy Farmers of Canada
John Masswohl  Director, Government and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Declan Hamill  Chief of Staff and Vice-President, Legal Affairs, Canada's Research-Based Pharmaceutical Companies (Rx & D)

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

We want to call the meeting to order.

We're waiting for members to come back from the vote. I think we have enough to get started.

We have our witnesses here, and we're going to have to abbreviate this session. We have two sessions. We are talking about the comprehensive economic and trade agreement, CETA, with the European Union today.

We have the Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association. Barry Fishman is going to be presenting first.

Then we have Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance, with Kathleen Sullivan. It's good to have you here.

We have Derek Butler from the Association of Seafood Producers.

We are not going to take a lot of time. If you would start with the presentation....

I'm just going to start with a presentation, Mr. Easter.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

I am moving a motion, Mr. Chair.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

No, you're not.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Yes, I am, Mr. Chair. Under the rules I have the right to move a motion, and I'm moving that motion, Mr. Chair. It's on the agenda.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Okay, here we go, lots of games.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

No, this is not. I'll tell you the games, and I'll tell you why I am--

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

You just go ahead with your motion, Mr. Easter. Let's get at it.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

I am. The motion reads:

(1) That, in accordance with the motion adopted by the Committee on September 27, 2011 inviting the following to appear in the context of the Committee's study on Canada-United States trading relationship - draft “Buy American” provisions:

- Gary Doer, Ambassador of Canada to the United States,

- The Hon. Ed Fast, P.C., M.P., Minister of International Trade, and officials

- Representatives of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters,

The witnesses appear before the Committee before the end of November 2011 and that the Committee present a report with recommendations to the House no later than December 9, 2011 with a request for a response from the government.

I so move. I do so, Mr. Chair--and I apologize to the witnesses--because what we are seeing from the government side is that when we move a motion, the government forces the motion into an in camera session, where nothing about the motion can be talked about. This is a motion that needs to be talked about in the public arena. All our motions need to be talked about in the public arena.

Why is there the need for this motion now? The Government of Canada has not been on its game in terms of President Obama coming forward with the Buy American provisions. It's very serious to us. CETA is an important agreement, but the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade itself admits that where trade is about 75% with the United States today, it will be the same in 2040. We can't just be concentrating on other agreements and letting slide the importance of our trading relationship with the United States.

I believe it is extremely important that the committee call the people who are responsible, in terms of that trading relationship, before this committee to find out what went wrong, is there anything we can do about it, and how do we ensure that either the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, the Canadian embassy in Washington, the minister, or our trade secretariats across the United States are on top of these things before they happen?

Mr. Chair, the last point I'd make, because I don't want to take a lot of time, is that the $5.50 entry fee, which again the minister was surprised and disappointed about, was in Congress for some time and nobody from our side seemed to have challenged it. As a result of that, I believe it is critical that we bring these witnesses in and ensure, or try to ensure, that the Government of Canada is going to be strenuously observing that trading relationship with the United States and taking pre-emptive action rather than after the fact.

That is the reason for my motion, Mr. Chair, and it says in the motion that we would want this done prior to the end of November. I would remind Conservative members opposite that in a public meeting, in which we didn't have a deadline on the hearing being over, all Conservative members supported the motion, so I would expect them to do the same today.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you, Mr. Easter. I don't think it had anything to do with what the motion has had to say, but nonetheless, Mr. Shipley, let's debate this very quickly, because we have a whole list of witnesses we want to get to.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Okay. And thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm really quite disappointed that.... Quite honestly, the respect for the member across.... Before, when we were on the agriculture committee, the member used to continually bring up the flavour-of-the-day emergency, and that's exactly what this is.

I think the emergency is actually dealing with our witnesses and getting on with dealing with the free trade agreements, in particular this one around the EU.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

We're going to call the question. All in favour of the motion....

Mr. Chisholm.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

I asked to be on the list.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to make a couple of points.

I support the motion. And in response to Mr. Shipley, this is a matter that was brought forward two weeks ago. Part of the reason it is being dealt with in the manner it's being dealt with today, frankly, is frustration from members of this committee on the opposition side with the way these matters are being dealt with by the committee.

I spoke to this issue on Tuesday, saying that we're all responsible members of this committee and we take our work here very seriously. We're on the opposition side, sure, but we're also full-fledged members of this committee and we want to have equal, fair, and respectful participation on issues that come before this committee. And we're feeling, frankly, that this is not being done.

The issue that Mr. Easter raises is an important issue, as it relates to our relationships with the United States and our relations on trade. Things seem to continue to happen that take the government by surprise. I think it would be helpful to us and it would be helpful to Canadians if we had a better sense of exactly what was at play on the items that have been listed in this motion, and subsequently, as relates to our trading relationship with the United States.

So I would indicate that I support the member's motion.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

We'll vote right away.

All in favour?

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

May we have a recorded vote, Mr. Chair?

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

We'll ask the clerk to do the vote.

11:45 a.m.

Paul Cardegna Clerk of the Committee, Standing Committee on International Trade

The vote is on motion number 1 of Mr. Easter.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

The motion is defeated.

We'll move on to our witnesses. We want to thank you very much for coming.

We'll open the floor to Mr. Fishman.

11:45 a.m.

Barry Fishman Chair, Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association, and President and Chief Executive Officer, Teva Canada

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for inviting the generic pharmaceutical industry to appear as part of your work on the CETA negotiations.

My name is Barry Fishman. I'm the chair of the Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association and the chief executive officer of Teva Canada.

I'm joined by two CGPA staff members, Jim Keon, who is the president of the association, and the federal affairs director, Jody Cox.

Let me start with a few words about our industry.

First of all, our industry is a strong supporter of increased international trade as well as trade agreements. Generic companies manufacture for the Canadian market, and we export more than 40% of our output to more than 100 countries.

Generics employ more than 11,000 Canadians, mostly in highly skilled scientific, research and development, quality control, and manufacturing positions. Our strong Canadian presence also supports a large group of local suppliers, creating thousands of additional jobs. Our member companies have a strong presence in Ontario and Quebec, as well as in Manitoba.

It may surprise you that Canadian generic companies produce most of the pharmaceutical manufacturing output in Canada. We invest hundreds of millions of dollars in Canadian R and D each year, in product development, and in challenging invalid patents to ensure that new generic medicines are introduced to the Canadian market.

Generic medicines provide excellent value for Canadians. After several rounds of recent provincial drug reforms, our products now typically sell at a 60% to 75% discount to the equivalent brand-name products. This creates several billion dollars of annual savings for the Canadian heath care system.

The EU has tabled a series of proposals in the CETA negotiations aimed at increasing market monopolies for brand-name companies, many of whom are headquartered in Europe. An academic study commissioned by CGPA estimates that these proposed measures would delay generic competition, on average, for an extra three and a half years. This would cost Canadians an additional $2.8 billion each year in prescription drug prices.

These EU proposals also fail to recognize that Canada is already home to one of the strongest IP regimes for pharmaceuticals in the world. Canada's domestic IP measures have increased no fewer than eight times since 1987, yet brand-name R and D investments as a percentage of sales continue to slide and are now at their lowest level in a decade. As Minister Gary Goodyear noted in a recent interview with The Hill Times newspaper, Canada already has strong intellectual property protection for pharmaceuticals, and there are other factors that guide R and D investments.

Historical evidence supports that extending patent life does not increase R and D investment by brand-name companies in Canada. It's interesting to note that the countries experiencing the highest growth in R and D jobs in recent years, India and China, have the weakest IP regimes. Low costs coupled with skilled labour, not IP protection, appear to drive global decisions by brand-name companies with respect to research and innovation.

The profit motivation behind these proposals is clear, and the EU did not table the proposals to increase pharmaceutical R and D spending in Canada. They are making these proposals to increase the profits of pharma companies, many based in Europe.

The Canadian IP regime already exceeds international standards. We have an automatic two-year injunction period that keeps generics off the market even if we don't infringe their patents. The EU does not have this type of restriction, and our data exclusivity period is already three years longer that of the U.S., the largest available market for export mandates for Canadian generic manufacturers.

An unworkable system of dual litigation already exists in the Canadian pharmaceutical industry. After patents are successfully challenged in court under the PMNOC regulations, brand-name companies have the chance to re-litigate, starting the day the generic company enters the market, on the same patents under the Patent Act. This is a costly, wasteful, and complex system, unheard of in any other country or any other industry.

This system adds significant, unnecessary cost to our health care system. Several stakeholder groups have expressed concern. The Health Council of Canada, the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association, most provincial governments, seniors associations, and other groups have signalled to the Government of Canada that Canadians cannot afford to absorb the significant increases in drug costs that these EU proposals will create.

One case study of the real impact of these proposals is on Lipitor, the world's top-selling drug, made by Pfizer, which sold over $1.3 billion of product in Canada prior to the launch of generics in mid-2010. Had these proposals been in place, the introduction of generics would have been delayed by two years and would have cost the Canadian health care system an additional $1.9 billion.

These proposals would also negatively impact upon Canada's successful generic drug industry and the ability of our companies to compete on a global stage, as domestic IP has a direct impact on the ability of generic manufacturers to develop and manufacture new products for export markets.

Increases in domestic IP protection for pharmaceuticals, as demanded by the EU, would make Canadian manufacturers less competitive internationally. They clearly threaten our industry's critical need to manufacture products in Canada for export to the larger U.S. and European markets and would also delay the introduction of new generic products in Canada.

Simply put, these proposals effectively eliminate the business return required to justify our current level of investment and litigation to challenge brand patents, which have historically allowed our industry to introduce lower-priced generic pharmaceuticals, saving billions of dollars a year, and which are a critical solution for a sustainable Canadian health care system. The result is that Canadian generic company manufacturing export mandates, investments, and also jobs would ultimately move to other jurisdictions.

Canada's pharmaceutical IP regime already exceeds international standards. It's not a perfect system, and the generic industry agrees that this system requires urgent review and changes by the Government of Canada.

The generic industry has been advocating for improvements to this system for several years. Canada should use the opportunity presented by the CETA negotiations to streamline the patent linkage regime and eliminate the system of dual litigation that exists in Canada.

In conclusion, I want to stress that the EU proposals related to pharmaceuticals are not about innovation or reducing trade barriers. They are about increasing profits for brand-name companies headquartered in Europe at the expense of private and public payers and consumers and at the expense of manufacturing jobs and R and D investments in Canada.

Now is certainly not the time for costly IP changes that drive unsustainable cost increases to our health care system, a health care system that is already under intense pressure, by further extending brand monopoly periods.

These changes will also further restrict trade on exporting generic pharmaceuticals, resulting in a significant reduction of advanced manufacturing jobs and manufacturing plants in Canada.

Thank you for your attention. We welcome your questions at the end of the session.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

We'll now move very quickly to Kathleen Sullivan from the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance.

11:55 a.m.

Kathleen Sullivan Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance

Good afternoon. My name is Kathleen Sullivan, and I'm the executive director of the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance.

CAFTA is a coalition of national and regional producer groups and processor associations that support an open and transparent international trading environment for agriculture and food products. My members include the beef, the pork, the grain, and the oil seed sectors in Canada, among others.

Canada's agrifood sectors are very much dependent on trade. Canada exports almost $40 billion a year in agriculture and food products, and that includes half our beef, two-thirds of our pork, 75% of our wheat, and 85% of our canola. It is essential that government and industry work together to expand export markets for these products.

The EU is a potentially critical market for us. The EU is a lucrative market for Canadian agriculture and food products. Outside the WTO, it really represents the greatest trade opportunity that our agrifood sectors have seen in a generation. The EU has 500 million people who largely share our taste in food and who have an interest in the higher-value food products that Canada is known for and creates.

We are, however, underservicing this market. Our exports to the EU right now are only one-tenth of what we're shipping to the United States. For some of our key products, like beef and pork, we have virtually no access to Europe today, and we're also hindered by a series of non-tariff barriers, like GMO regulations, for many of our important crop products, in particular canola.

We have seen tremendous progress in the CETA negotiations so far. Over 90% of tariff lines have already been identified as possibly going duty-free on day one of these negotiations. But the negotiators have yet to tackle the most sensitive agriculture issues. For us, that includes beef and pork and biotech regulations. These will really be critical in evaluating the success of an FTA at the end of the day.

We firmly believe that a deal that doesn't include a strong agriculture package just won't be worth signing. Canada and the EU did an economic feasibility study before these negotiations began, and fully a quarter, 25%, of all the value of the CETA to Canada will come from additional agriculture and food exports. This is a very important opportunity for us.

A more open trading system is essential for Canada's agrifood sectors and for this important part of the economy. The WTO continues to be our main trading priority, but the Canada–EU CETA is a potentially critical deal for our agrifood sectors. It could open EU markets for key agriculture and food products, and it could address long-standing and future non-tariff barriers in a manner that's precedent-setting.

Thank you very much.

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

We'll go now to Mr. Butler.

Noon

Derek Butler Executive Director, Association of Seafood Producers

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and let me thank all members for the opportunity to appear before the committee this morning.

My name is Derek Butler. I am the executive director of the Association of Seafood Producers in Newfoundland and Labrador. On behalf of our members, I am pleased to appear before you this morning.

ASP's members produce the vast majority of the province's seafood. Post-moratorium, some say the fishery is gone. I'm here to say today that the fishery is double the value it ever was prior to the moratorium, thanks in particular to shellfish. We remain the largest single private sector employer in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Between one-fifth and one-quarter of all Canadian seafood production is in Newfoundland and Labrador. It is an export industry. In 2010, 83% of our production was exported. In my eight years at ASP, that represents over $6 billion in exports from just one province.

Our message today is simply this: we support any and all efforts to secure a free trade agreement, but not at any price, of course. CETA represents an important opportunity for the industry I represent and all Canadian seafood producers, because our business is export, pure and simple.

While 66% of Canadian seafood production goes into the U.S., for Newfoundland and Labrador it's just 34%. Almost 20% of our exports go to the European Union. That figure is not important; it's what that figure can be in a new dispensation.

A free trade deal with Europe with reduced tariffs can mean more exports and more room for growth, because the European market is a sophisticated market. The European client is a sophisticated client. They eat way more seafood per capita than Canadians or Americans. Europe has a seafood deficit in trade terms of about four million tonnes a year. They need seafood and they cannot source it locally. We'd be proud to provide it.

Reduced and eliminated tariffs can mean new market opportunities for Newfoundland and Labrador, P.E.I., and other jurisdictions across the country. It is worth bearing in mind that Newfoundland and Labrador is not much farther from Great Britain than it is from Winnipeg, and that Newfoundland and Labrador, by my calculations, is only 58 kilometres farther from Italy than from Vancouver, even though it may not look like it is.

The point is that we are natural trade partners with Europe. It is our backyard, but we must reduce the tariffs we face there. Those tariffs are high. They range from 12% to 20%, but we must reduce them.

It's fair to say that the tariffs are simply holdovers. They exist simply because they exist. It would be appropriate to see their elimination for the benefit of European consumers, European business, and those who want to buy Canadian seafood from Canadian seafood producers.

We have two recommendations. We ask for a complete elimination of tariffs down to zero, and that this be the immediate fruit of a Canadian-EU free trade agreement. Given the lack of an adjustment or transition period required for European seafood producers and the seafood trade deficit that exists, it makes sense to address the tariffs up front and reduce all tariffs to zero.

I should add that we must be vigilant in ensuring that as we eliminate tariffs, we do not see a commensurate rise in other trade barriers and trade walls.

I'd be remiss in my duties if I didn't take this opportunity to say that the Canadian seafood industry remains an industry premised on a broken and failing model. There are constraints on strong resource management because of the socio-economic pressures brought to bear. There is a heavy reliance on EI. This model cannot attract the capital required to modernize our fleets or catch the products at the right times of year. That should concern us all, because a better industry model could contribute more to GDP as a larger contributor to Canada's wealth through exports. At present we are an underperforming asset, and that should concern this committee.

We can reduce tariffs and build new markets, but we can also fix things at home. If we dislike change, we're going to dislike irrelevance even more.

In closing, thank you for your time. Please have some seafood for dinner. We're available for questions afterwards.

Thank you.

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much for that, and for those presentations.

Our time has been cut because of the voting and the intervention. Nonetheless, we want to hear all of the witnesses, so we'll ask for a first round of abbreviated questions and answers. We will also retain the right to hopefully call you back if we don't have a fulsome enough discussion.

We'll start off with about three minutes each.

Mr. Chisholm.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thanks very much.

My apologies, as a member of the committee, for not having sufficient time to delve into these issues.

Let me say, Mr. Butler, that I appreciate the pitch you're making. I've spoken to producers in Nova Scotia and representatives in Newfoundland and Labrador. I absolutely hear what you're saying about the value of increasing access to markets, but I have also heard, from you and from those people, not at any price. Understand that, certainly from this side, we're thinking seriously about the points you've made.

Ms. Sullivan, we've talked before—and I think you understand where we're coming from and where we stand—and we certainly support the points you have made.

I'm going to move to the generics, and I want to say this to you: I was quite shaken by the study and the $2.8 billion increase in the cost of the health care system. I come from Nova Scotia, and the government there has worked closely with your sector and other sectors to try to get a handle on drug costs, and some considerable progress has been made.

Will you please tell me you've had some response from the Government of Canada about your study and about the potential impact of the increased patent protection on health care?

12:05 p.m.

Jim Keon President, Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association

We have presented the study to the federal government, to the chief negotiator. We've had good access in terms of presenting our issues.

The costs are a major element of these proposals, particularly, as you said, with provincial governments, but also with large payers. We noted in our comments that the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association, which represents large employers and insurance companies, and a number of other groups have expressed concern.

The federal government has listened to us and has indicated that it appreciates the study very much. The government has not committed to move toward what the Europeans want. It's listening. It's trying to gauge what the impact will be, but the extra cost, the cost of not being able to get generics for an extra three and a half years, is clearly a critical element on the table.