Evidence of meeting #55 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brandon Hall  Operations Manager, Electric Vehicle Division, Prairie Machine and Parts
Michelle Laflamme  President and Chief Executive Officer, Emovi Inc.
Nicolas Letenneur  Vice-President, Fumoir la Fée Des Grèves
Denis Leclerc  President and Chief Executive Officer, Écotech Québec
Guy Drouin  Co-President, Taxation Committee, Écotech Québec

3:30 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Don Davies

Colleagues, I'd like to call this meeting to order. This is meeting number 55 of the Standing Committee on International Trade. We are continuing, under Standing Order 108(2), our study on small and medium-sized enterprises.

I would like to welcome all the witnesses who are with us today.

We have with us, from Emovi Inc., Michelle Laflamme, president and chief executive officer, and from Fumoir La Fée des Grèves, Mr. Nicolas Letenneur, vice-president. Écotech Québec is not here yet, but we understand that we will be joined by them shortly. By video conference from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, we have Prairie Machine and Parts, with Mr. Brandon Hall, operations manager, electric vehicle division.

In deference to technology, and in some fear of technology, we will begin with the video conference from Saskatoon.

3:30 p.m.

Voices

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3:30 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Don Davies

Mr. Hall, you have eight minutes, please.

3:30 p.m.

Brandon Hall Operations Manager, Electric Vehicle Division, Prairie Machine and Parts

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members, for letting me speak here today on behalf of small businesses. I appreciate the opportunity to share my experience and observations surrounding the interaction of SMEs and the federal and provincial governments.

I'll start off just briefly by letting you know who I am and where I come from, and why I'm sitting here today. My name's Brandon Hall. I'm the operations manager of Prairie Machine and Parts in Saskatoon. We were a young start-up company started in 2010. We've just recently, as of January, been acquired.

For the background of the company, we started PapaBravo in 2010 to design an electric vehicle for underground mining to replace a traditional diesel truck underground. We started with basically just a few of us in a back-shop garage with a $35,000 contract, running on credit cards and lines of credit.

After our first vehicle delivery and successful deployment in 2010, we began to gain some attraction, both locally and internationally. We were approached by a local industrial technology adviser from NRC, and we were granted a project to further develop our product. This initial input is where we really started to gain some momentum. It afforded us to move to the next level with our company without a high level of financial risk. After this project was successful, we received a large contract from one of the local mines. We actually couldn't afford to deliver on it, as we couldn't afford the parts to manufacture it. This is where the federal government came in. Through BDC, we were able to factor our purchase orders, and by factoring them we were able to access some working capital and deliver on that contract.

Over the next few years, we had some exponential growth. We went from about four employees and $50,000 in sales in 2010 to 45 employees and about $6 million in sales in three years. None of this would have been possible without the support of both the provincial and federal governments.

In terms of trade and export development, both governments, federal and provincial, have afforded us the opportunity to expand faster and smarter than we ever could have without their help, namely the Saskatchewan Trade and Export Partnership and the trade commissioner service.

When I was starting to investigate new markets and how I should go about expanding into new markets and what markets to expand into, the TCS was a really good resource for me in vetting potential customers for a dealer network. Angela Dark out of Saskatoon, the trade commissioner here for the mining sector, would talk to embassies and other trade commissioners and give me a background on the people, so I didn't have to fly there to meet them face to face to see if they were a reasonable fit for our company. As a young start-up with limited cash, this was definitely a big benefit.

Also, the Saskatchewan Trade and Export Partnership, without whom we would never be where we are today, their services, advice, and market research were immeasurable in terms of export success. I would also like to acknowledge the success of the BIAP program through NRC, the business innovation access program. We were able to get a fully funded market research project done through this so we could enter some new markets and have some good, strong intel before entering these markets.

With the success of all these programs and how much they've helped me over the last three or four years, I have noticed some areas that I personally feel could use some improvement or maybe some change. In my experience, the hardest part about expansion, both locally and internationally, is juggling risk with available cashflow. As with any business, cashflow is important.

Expansion plans and new markets can demolish a company's available cash in a hurry. What I would recommend to this committee to investigate would be to develop a program similar to the NRC IRAP program.

It would be more focused and strategic program that would target promising young companies looking to expand and looking to grow into new markets rather than the broad approach, which is all these big programs and everybody has access to them. This would target specific companies through a specific project. I want to expand to this market and the government would afford them some financing, some advisers, some market research, and things like that.

It would not be for every company, which is similar to how the NRC IRAP program is not for everyone. In my experience this more targeted approach would offer a greater return for Canadian taxpayers' dollars.

The second portion that I would recommend to the committee is the marketing of products and services. Starting up a new company basically swallows your life up, 80 hours a week, seven days a week. That was normal for me for the last four years and I know there are dozens of programs and financial aids and services available, but the average Canadian business owner is completely unaware.

While you're working these 80 hour weeks, you don't have time to dedicate to looking up these services. If you could get these products and services into the eyes of Canadian business owners, that could really have a lot more momentum and have a lot more success.

I'm very excited by the level and depth of resources that both the federal and provincial governments are putting into trade and export development. I'm glad to see that the federal government has plans in the budget released last week to expand the trade commissioner service and has earmarked some funding for trade and export.

Thank you for the opportunity to bring my experience and my recommendations. I welcome your questions.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Don Davies

Thank you, Mr. Hall, and we did in fact hear your entire presentation.

Next we have from Emovi Inc., Madam Laflamme.

3:40 p.m.

Michelle Laflamme President and Chief Executive Officer, Emovi Inc.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to extend my sincere thanks to the committee for the opportunity to discuss my company and our journey.

I started Emovi, which stands for emotion, movement and vision, in 2007. When you start a business, all three of those elements come into play. Emovi emerged from university research and technology. In fact, three Canadian universities—CHUM, École de technologie supérieure and École Polytechnique—jointly developed a tool to observe and assess a knee in motion.

People can experience knee pain when they move, play golf, ski or go down a flight of stairs. And the only knee assessment tools doctors have right now are their hands, eyes, x-rays and MRIs. Imaging produces static pictures that provide little or no information on what is causing the patient's symptoms. It's akin to assessing a patient's heart just by listening to the heartbeat, as was the practice years ago.

The same goes for the knee, so doctors don't necessarily have all the tools they need to understand why the patient is experiencing pain. And patients end up in a vicious cycle. They see a doctor, who prescribes them pain medication or something else. If the patient goes back to the doctor, they will undergo an x-ray or MRI before being seen by an orthopedist. And many of the patients waiting to see an orthopedist aren't candidates for surgery. When they finally see the orthopedist—if they do—some six or eight months later, if not a year or two later in Canada, the orthopedist sends them right back to their doctor. So patients suffering from knee pain have a very hard time.

In the early 1990s, the three Canadian universities I mentioned set about examining the issue. Only a few university research teams in the world have studied the problem and been able to acquire a solid understanding of knee joint function. They researched all the symptoms related to knee injury, osteoarthritis of the knee in the aging population and femoral-patellar syndrome, which is common in soldiers and those between the ages of 20 and 40.

I acquired the technology, and together with four hospitals, we started to gather conclusive data in order to obtain approval for the system and the ability to sell it. From 2007 to 2010, clinical trials were conducted, and the technology was tested in a real healthcare setting. In 2010-11, we received regulatory approval from the FDA and Health Canada, as well as CE marking in Europe.

Given that the technology is a medical innovation that represents a new practice for the medical community, it means that doctors have to change their approach to knee assessment. In order to build credibility in the medical community, we had to engage opinion leaders so that they would publish data on the technology and endorse it.

So, not only did we face regulatory barriers, but we also had to overcome credibility issues and the difficulty around integrating the technology into the care continuum, with respect to front-line healthcare providers. After receiving the necessary regulatory approvals, we began marketing the technology in 2011. We called it KneeKG—a nod to EKG, the heart assessment tool.

Our first buyers were opinion leaders from around the world. That process was largely facilitated by Canadian trade commissioners, who introduced us to David Hunter, an opinion leader from Australia in the field of knee osteoarthritis. In 2011, he did a literature review on the subject that appeared in the journal Nature.

Having his support is important for us, knee osteoarthritis being our main market. But the fact of the matter is that, for a Canadian start-up, knocking on the doors of opinion leaders isn't exactly easy, and the trade commissioner service did a lot for us in that regard. Today, we have 20 sales under our belt, including in Australia, thanks to Mr. Hunter, who introduced us to an Australian distributor. So now we have a distribution company in Australia. And we've also made one sale to China. We've sold the technology to buyers in the U.S., France and Canada, as well. Opinion leaders have helped with our initial sales, and that's largely thanks to the help we received.

We have a small team, but what we do requires a lot of funding and investment. In our first few years, until 2012, I provided a significant part of the funding, myself. In 2012, the process of marketing the technology for export became very cost-intensive, so we sought out venture capital.

We applied for BDC funding, but we didn't get it. We did get funding from Fonds Bio-Innovation, which is mainly supported by Quebec's Fonds de solidarité FTQ and the Royal Bank of Canada. We didn't meet the BDC's criteria, but we did meet the Royal Bank's requirements, with a guarantee provided by EDC. That was a major boost for us.

At the same time, we continued our R and D work to keep innovating. We worked on our technology, a product to diagnose the causes of knee symptoms. We took the technology to the diagnostic level. Our system makes it possible to diagnose whether a patient has osteoarthritis and a partial tear, patellar syndrome or another problem. From a regulatory standpoint, diagnosis is a more refined step. We received a lot of support from the NRC through IRAP. That gave us the momentum to obtain a critical mass and to introduce our product to frontline health providers. Market demand exists for this kind of diagnostic tool.

So that gives you an overview of what Emovi does. Our team continues to innovate and engage in R and D, but our primary focus is commercializing our system. Commercializing a medical innovation requires a change in medical practices, and that's a big challenge for us. We have to work with medical associations to incorporate information about the new technology into continuing education activities. The Quebec government gave us funding for a major clinical trial involving 2,000 patients. The trial has merely confirmed all the evidence gathered to date. It's being done in a more formal context so that we can incorporate the technology into Quebec's public health system.

In the U.S., we've been able to have Medicare cover the cost of the assessment. That's been a problem in Canada, given that each province has its own plan for reimbursing expenses. In Quebec, it's RAMQ. The U.S. health insurance plan is universal, so we have access to the entire market.

Something that could go a long way towards helping medical companies like ours would be an initiative to harmonize the integration of medical innovations in the public healthcare system. That could be covered under interprovincial agreements, for example. It would make our job easier, because we wouldn't have to duplicate the same process in every province. Right now, we are putting a lot of focus on the U.S. and European markets because, in Canada, we have to follow the same process ten times. It's a tremendous burden that requires a significant amount of time and money.

As far as companies like mine go, I have a hard time wrapping my head around the BDC's criteria and what it's looking for. Traditional banks gave us funding, but not the BDC. The BDC's view was that our company represented too great of a risk. That's an area that may require some clarification.

I have a recommendation. We have a lot of support for R and D and a number of funding opportunities, but when it comes to—

3:45 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Don Davies

Madam Laflamme, I am sorry, but you are out of time. I am going to have to ask you to stop. You will have a chance to expand when questions are asked.

3:45 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Emovi Inc.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Don Davies

Thank you very much.

Next, from Fumoir La Fée des Grèves, we have Mr. Letenneur. You have eight minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Nicolas Letenneur Vice-President, Fumoir la Fée Des Grèves

Good afternoon everyone.

Fumoir La Fée des Grèves is a seafood processing plant located in the Quebec City area. The smokehouse was established in 1994 by my brother and I, Marin and Nicolas Letenneur. We are French immigrants trained in the preparation of high-quality food.

We went into business as soon as we arrived in Canada. While we had few resources, we had a lot of potential. Since our company was created in 1994, we have taken part in a number of international fairs, and each time our products are recognized as among the best smoked salmon in the world. Their subtle maple flavour—distinctively Canadian—wins universal acclaim every time. Our smokehouse methods have attracted a great deal of interest from investors. Quality control is the cornerstone of this Canadian technique.

Smoked salmon is consumed worldwide, but also produced in nearly every country. In most countries, import duties are very high, preventing us from being competitive and selling our products in large quantities there. We have been making high-quality products at our Quebec City plant for 20 years now using our unique recipes and techniques, which are recognized throughout the province.

We are also becoming increasingly known internationally and in various food, restaurant, retail and industrial markets. We always intended to bring our company into the international market. To prepare ourselves, we've learned and invested a lot to meet the industry's highest standards. Since cold-smoked salmon is everywhere, in both industrialized and developing countries, we quickly identified numerous business opportunities for our company.

Given the challenges we faced in exporting our products, we thought about practical ways of establishing ourselves internationally. This strategic thinking led us to the opportunities for technology transfers. Thanks to federal government assistance under the industrial cooperation program and with the help of a specialized company, we created a marketable product in the form of an industrial franchise.

We were invited to Latin America, Asia and the Middle East, where the franchise idea was very well-received, and we worked on technology transfer projects with potentially serious partners.

The first technology transfer we undertook through the industrial cooperation program was on the island of Bali. Once the initial steps were taken, we began implementing the minimum standards required for the local market, with the goal of ultimately meeting the hazard analysis and critical control points—or HACCP—and global food safety initiative—or GFSI—the highest food production standards that allow for exporting. The Bali plant was on the brink of bankruptcy at the time, but today, thanks to this project, it is doing much better and is producing several dozen tons of smoked salmon for the Indonesian market. We subsequently hired additional staff at our Quebec City plant to monitor the progress in Bali.

At the same time, we visited Japan to evaluate the idea of supplying that country from Bali. Given the customs benefits of free trade between these two nations, we immediately saw a terrific opportunity to expand.

Right before the final phase of the technology transfer in Bali, the third in a three-part program, the industrial cooperation program was suddenly shut down, breaking our momentum. Our file had been on hold for several months and was about to be approved. Without government support, we could not take the risk of investing so much money, even though we knew the Asian market was worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

Economically speaking, technology transfer is a very good way for small and medium-sized businesses to expand internationally. It is financially viable, the risks are limited and the difficulties that arise are manageable. We are evidence of that. In addition to Indonesia and Japan, we had requests from Singapore and South Korea, assuring us of a favourable market.

Currently, we are doing a technology transfer in the Middle East. We will not be receiving a share of the profits, other than through royalties.

The industrial cooperation program is an indispensable engine for prosperity for small and medium-sized businesses on the international market. Support from federal and provincial governments is also essential for us to operate internationally. Today's small and medium-sized businesses are tomorrow's multinationals, but they cannot get there without government support. That is why we would love to see the industrial cooperation program reinstated or a similar new program launched. This would enable us to complete our project in Indonesia and start others. Our business strategy is to set up on every continent and compete with major suppliers Norway and Chile, enabling Canada to take its rightful place in this rapidly growing market.

With each foreign project, we hire 5 to 10 more people—depending on project size—at our headquarters in Quebec City to monitor the technology transfer and ensure it is successful. Therefore, this kind of program is also terrific for job creation here in Canada.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Don Davies

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, I understand that our witnesses from Écotech Québec are on their way, but they're not here yet. What I propose to do is to start our questions now, and when they do come we'll interrupt at the appropriate time and get their testimony.

Mr. Morin, you have the floor for seven minutes.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Mr. Letenneur, could you describe for us the challenges you have when it comes to transportation costs?

3:55 p.m.

Vice-President, Fumoir la Fée Des Grèves

Nicolas Letenneur

We have transportation challenges and tax-related challenges. Even though Canada is obviously a salmon-producing country, some of our competitors are much better-positioned than we are. As I was saying earlier, governments such as Norway's and Chile's subsidize their producers and, therefore, their processors.

In Dubai, for instance, the product is in high demand by everyone because of its tremendous quality. When it comes time to negotiate prices, they are 30% to 40% more expensive than those of our competitors. And yet salmon production costs in Chile and Norway are the same as Canada's. So something's not right.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Chilean producers aren't subject to overly stringent environmental standards.

3:55 p.m.

Vice-President, Fumoir la Fée Des Grèves

Nicolas Letenneur

Technically, in order to export products to Canada, producers have to comply with international HACCP and GFSI standards. But it's fairly easy for products to come in. Indeed, it's more difficult to sell and export our products than it is to import foreign products into Canada.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I know that Norway has a very robust aquaculture industry.

3:55 p.m.

Vice-President, Fumoir la Fée Des Grèves

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC

In fact, Norwegian producers use technologies developed in Canada.

3:55 p.m.

Vice-President, Fumoir la Fée Des Grèves

Nicolas Letenneur

That's true.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC

In your view, are Norwegian producers unduly subsidized by their government?

3:55 p.m.

Vice-President, Fumoir la Fée Des Grèves

Nicolas Letenneur

I have heard about transportation support. When they ship to a foreign country by air, the government covers the transportation costs.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC

And that's a big chunk of your costs. What percentage would you say that represents?

3:55 p.m.

Vice-President, Fumoir la Fée Des Grèves

Nicolas Letenneur

It's huge. It's quite straightforward, actually. We can only afford to ship our products by boat, in containers. That's the only way to ship salmon at an affordable cost. Selling a 20-foot or 40-foot container's worth of product is very tough. When you're trying to penetrate a market, people usually only want to buy small quantities. And the only way to do that is to ship by air. In other words, most of the time, we aren't able to deliver the first order. We have to convince the customer to buy a full container. Unfortunately, that's where we lose 90% of our potential customers; no one wants to commit to buying a full container in one shot. A buyer will often want just a pallet or two. So of course, it makes a difference. At the end of the day, it closes a lot of doors to us.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I'm intrigued by another aspect.

Like all Quebec entrepreneurs, the Quebec government is very proactive when it comes to promoting exports. Would you say there's any coordination between federal and provincial services?

3:55 p.m.

Vice-President, Fumoir la Fée Des Grèves

Nicolas Letenneur

We're not always well-received. I've gone to Paris a number of times, for instance. And most of the time, I was discouraged. In fact, once, it ended up being a waste of time, even though a huge consumer market for specialty foods was taking place there. I had the opportunity to go on a mission to Japan, organized by Quebec's general delegation. That was an extraordinary experience. It even resulted in a sale. We were able to gain access to a very big customer in Japan. It's as though the market was more available to us. It's possible to export Canadian salmon to Japan.

In Paris, it was obvious that I didn't have a place, and I don't know why. If ever there were somewhere where I should have a place, it's at France's consumer market, which draws major customers. Every time I go, I meet with distributors who I bring products to. We really stand out from the crowd given our unique Canadian production technique. It's the traditional method that really sets us apart from Norway and Chile, particularly because we don't use nitrites. Our use of maple is the best selling point.

Maple, by the way, is a key component of one of our technology projects. Quality control and technology transfer are also important. Our partner absolutely has to use maple wood. We export it to Indonesia for the smoking process. In Bali, they now serve maple-smoked salmon in restaurants and hotels. So it's doable.